March 31, 2025
Watering Your Marriage Garden
349: Pastor Plek and Pastor Holland unpack Song of Solomon chapter 7 to reveal how affirmation and intentional communication help marriages thrive like well-maintained gardens. If you want your marriage to flourish, be intentional about speaking words of affirmation to your spouse and nurturing even the smallest signs of connection between you.
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00:00 - Introduction and Song of Solomon Review
08:47 - Exploring Solomon's Garden Imagery
21:32 - Watering Your Marriage Garden
27:09 - What If Your Spouse Won't Change?
35:47 - Six Communication Pitfalls to Avoid
45:28 - Leading With Love and Servant Leadership
WEBVTT
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor plec, along with none other than holland greg, pastor from eastside community church.
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Glad you are joining us this morning thanks, chris, afternoon afternoon so, if you didn't know it, uh, holland preached this past sunday at wells branch community church and it was a delight and an honor to have him and he brought the word and brought some fire, and so I wanted to do a little bit of review on Song of Solomon, chapter 7, and to see if any of our fans out there were listening and caught that he actually started in Chapter 6, even though he didn't have the verse on the screen.
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Should we talk about that real quick, about the debated verse of verse 13?
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Let's do it.
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It says, using the ESV return return O Shulamite, return return that we may look upon you.
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And then Solomon goes.
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Why should you look upon the Shulamite as a dance before two armies?
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Talk to me about your thoughts on that verse.
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So this is where you're on the heels of conflict reconciliation, yep, and you have the others, the members of the community, kind of speaking into the relationship, yep, and saying you know, return, return, as in like you know, let's continue, all of us together, you know, like this, I don't know communal type conversation, whereas the groom is saying, you know, no, it's time for us to have some time alone, the specific like.
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I got the nkjv here where it says what would you see in the shulamite, as it were, the dance of the two camps?
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There's a lot of ways that verse is translated, interesting, um.
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So several different interpretations on what exactly that means, I think.
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In general, it's clear, though, that he is pulling her away from the community, the others, the crowd, and speaking tenderly, one-on-one to her, because in chapter seven he begins speaking directly to her, not about her, you know, but directly to her, and complimenting her, and complimenting her in very, you know, intimate kind of language, and so it's clear that he's saying, hey, it's the time of like, kind of us all together is over now.
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One on one time with my, with my I totally agree.
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I think that's and I you know there's so much here the the dance before two camps or two armies.
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Do you think there's any correlation between Jacob jacob wrestling the lord?
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I know this might be a little bit of a stretch, but I think the two camps uh is referred to as manahayim right uh and manahayim, and I think that's what the same maha naim, maha naim, and I think that's what that was called back in Genesis.
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I'm going to go with 25-ish, isn't it like 30s.
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I think it's in the 30s.
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Genesis 32?
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.
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Maybe 25 to 32.
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Yeah, somewhere in that range.
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Let me see if I can find it.
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Maybe you're right.
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Is it Genesis 32?
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Yeah, 32, verse 2.
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Yeah.
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And Jacob saw them.
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He said this is God's camp.
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So he called the name of that place Mahanaim.
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And so I was like what is that about?
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Is there any reference there from Solomon back to Jacob, not wrestling with God, perhaps, but seeing God's, jacob's ladder and the camp called Mahanaim?
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I don't know.
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Yeah, I don't know.
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There's no in that passage.
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There's nothing about a dance.
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There's no dancing there.
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Except there's the wrestling with God.
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Hold on, hold on.
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In chapter seven it starts off with her sandaled feet, so that could be a reference to her dancing skills, okay.
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I was saying in Genesis 32, though.
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Oh right.
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Of course there's nothing about a dance going on there, right, right, like make a connection.
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If it was like you know, a wrestling match, a fight, a you know something, but a dance it's like that's pulling from some something that you know we're not, or maybe there was a dance that happened at the location where jacob's ladder took place.
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Anyway, I don't know.
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I I just was like I was looking for a, an even greater old testament, deep meaning, and I think I'm just I'm pulling the air and I can't figure out anything yeah, yeah so I do think it's just.
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It's just transitioning from hey, everyone is excited to see that this couple is reconciled and now to further reconcile.
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They are going to go have intimacy with just those two together, and that's where he showers her with compliments and I think this really resonated with a lot of people.
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On Sunday, If you weren't there, Holland brought up his garden and he showed two pictures.
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He didn't take a lot of people on Sunday If you weren't there, Holland brought up his garden and he showed two pictures.
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He didn't take a picture of a heap of dirt.
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Yeah, I should have had that.
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Well, you probably could have gotten any heap of dirt and just showed that.
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And everyone would have believed you.
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But I think you don't take pictures of dirt, right, because that's not impressive.
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You only take pictures of your garden that flourishes, and the same way, you probably don't want to show off your marriage as just a heap of dirt.
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You want to show off a blooming garden or a blooming marriage, right?
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So talk to us about really where you were going with this idea of watering the garden and then transitioning to marriage.
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Yeah, so use the garden image, because it's the main kind of imagery being used.
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I almost feel like.
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For those of you who remember Phil Kwan, Phil Kwan went to camp illustrations.
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Every time You're going to the garden illustration.
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It's springtime, all right.
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This time of year, every year, every year around the Super Bowl, you're going to get sports illustrations from me.
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That's fair.
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It's springtime, you're going to get garden illustrations.
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Do sports illustrations?
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Yeah, I went and I was shamed into learning sports specifically for my.
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My preaching to connect with that's right.
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That's the only way you can, because everybody knows that sports illustrations are the way to a man's heart.
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Go ahead.
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That's right, um.
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So yeah, this is springtime, though, and so you got to use the garden stuff and, like jesus, you know, he, he, he talked about farming basically every other story and so I feel like he's slightly justified.
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Can I?
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Can I just go with this?
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isn't it odd that jesus talked about farming when he could talk about carpentry?
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Yeah like, why not talk about boards and planes and plumb lines?
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you know?
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Um, that's a good question.
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When we get to heaven, I I'll ask top 10.
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Like why?
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Why all the illustrations not about your, your craft?
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Maybe because he didn't want to be limited as just a carpenter?
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There you go.
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Well, there's something about you know, it's not just um song of Solomon and Jesus's parables.
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Like, again, I brought this up in the sermon too, from the very beginning, like, the first scene we really see of humanity in the Bible is in the garden, and it's the picture of bliss and perfection before sin entered the world.
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They're in a garden, things are blooming, flourishing, growing, thriving, and so that image in terms of like, something that is healthy, something that is as it should be, a garden, a vineyard, is often used to depict that, and so I gave a few examples of that from the Old Testament, from the Psalms, and Song of Solomon uses garden imagery a ton.
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So I showed some pictures of my garden and I was bringing up, though the whole point of it with this passage in chapter seven is saying that you don't get a flourishing, blooming garden, um, you know, automatically or accidentally it takes work to um.
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You gotta prepare the soil, plant the seeds and water it.
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Yeah, and if you, if you water it, if you do the work, you can expect it to be healthy and grow under normal circumstances, right, um?
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But if you don't, why should you expect it to be healthy?
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If you're not doing the work of watering your garden, it's going to dry, it's going to the plants will be wilted.
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Wilted.
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Is that right Wilted?
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You said yeah, wilted is fine, but you said wilter, wilter.
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That was hilarious.
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Yeah, I knew I said something I remember I was like you know, I'm going to let that one roll and wither.
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I think I mixed those.
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Yeah, yeah, but you did wilter, wiltered, maybe it was wiltered.
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I was.
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As I was listening to you talk, I looked around to see if anybody else was gone, and nobody.
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They were like yeah, wilter just say it confidently, yeah, yeah, I knew I was like I said something wrong and then right now it just came to mind again.
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But you know, not thriving not thriving.
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Yeah, nice wilter.
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Uh, maybe we're making a word and maybe it'll just all start right here.
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There we go.
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It's a good word Wilter, wiltering, it's wiltering, it feels like a real word, anyway.
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So my point was in chapter seven, the husband, his words of affection, his compliments are essentially, you know, in the, the metaphor of the garden.
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He is watering the garden that god has given him.
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His words are nourishing and nurturing his relationship with his wife, her heart.
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And then, you see, you know, starting in verse 10, her response is that she receives and reciprocates.
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So she receives what he has to say, instead of criticizing it or putting it down or denying it, dismissing it.
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She receives it.
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She says my beloved is mine, I am my beloved's and his desire is for me.
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In verse 10.
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And then verse 11 through 13, she basically is like let's go, let's go get alone together.
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I want to give you my love.
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And so you see that her confidence in his love and her desire for him comes as the result of his words of affection for her.
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So, essentially, him showering her with affection is like watering this garden that bears the fruit.
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So what I liked about and I think what some might have found difficult was you put a lot of the onus some might have found difficult.
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Was you put a lot of the onus and I think rightfully so on the men to water the marriage and the relationship and really like it's your job to do that.
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Now I think maybe women were maybe listening to that and they're like well, I'm screwed, it's never going to happen.
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I don't know if you don't know who I'm married to, it's hopeless.
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My husband does not do those things, so I guess I just have to sit here in sorrow.
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What do you think would be some good insight for a wife who's experiencing that?
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Pray number one, pray for well, number one.
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One, I'd say, in Christianity there's no such thing as hopeless.
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You know, like there's always.
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God is a miracle.
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That's what I wanted to end the sermon with is reminding everyone who the Lord is, that he raises the dead, he brings light out of darkness, you know, he gives sight to the blind.
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Like that's who God is.
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And so, if you're like there's no way my husband's ever going to become this kind of like, affectionate, loving, um, tender person, um, first and foremost, you got to understand that you're doubting what God can do, right?
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So we can all understand doubting, uh, people you know, based on your experience of them, and, uh, you know how, how they've treated you, or you know, based on your experience of them, and you know how they've treated you, or you know what their past is and all that.
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But we can't doubt God and we've got to know that God is able to.
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He's mighty to save, he's able to change and transform anyone.
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And so husbands are called to be tender and affectionate, to nourish and cherish their wives.
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In Ephesians five, right, I think you taught, think you taught maybe a few Sundays ago, on like rendering affection.
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That's KJV, right?
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Yeah, it's New King.
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James New King.
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James, yeah, yeah, there you go, rendering the affection due to your wife.
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You owe your wife affection, nourishment, cherishing her, washing her with water of the word, right, like that's stuff.
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That's a husband's obligation and responsibility to his wife before.
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God, even if he's not a Christian, which I think is one of the things that's.
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I think I was looking at Christian memes and it was, you know, john the Baptist.
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It was like you know, john the Baptist calling out Herod for you know, taking his brother's wife, and you know it was kind of poking fun at people who are super against Christian nationalism because they would say like hey, here's Herod or here's John the Baptist calling out a non-Christian to live as a Christian.
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Yeah right.
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Anyway and I think you can call it husbands to live as Christian husbands, because that's what you're supposed to.
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However, I do think the reality is, if you're a believing wife and you're married to a nonbeliever, I think 1 Peter 3, 1 through 6 is a great verse to sort of hold on to Like wives.
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Wives be subject to your own husbands so that, even if some do not obey the word, be subject to your own husband, so that, even if some do not obey the word and I guess you could say that this even if they're a Christian who doesn't obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives when they see your respectful and pure conduct.
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Do not let your adorning be external, the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry or the clothing you wear, but let your adorning be the hidden purse of the heart, with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit which is, in God's sight, is very precious, for this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord, and you are her children if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening which I appreciated the fear, anything that's frightening.
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So what I hear from that is women, it's going to be on you.
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If you have a husband who is either A not a Christian, or B just not living like a Christian, then your role is to kind of go over the top in your obedience and respect for him so that he can be won over by your respect.
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And I think when people hear that, they hear oh so you want me to be a doormat, right?
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And I think that's a challenge that us, as two men, might have a little difficulty in managing.
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I think what Adrienne does for me if she feels like I am not one who's obeying the word, she's like she'll say I want to pray for you to change your mind about that, or I really think you should seek God on that and pray about that.
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I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I think you should be praying about that, and that's kind of her way of saying I think you're out of line, or I think you should, you know, lead me in some way.
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Um, but I think that's a challenge, I think it's a real challenging thing, and what I don't want to happen is women, because here's how I think some women might take this.
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Chris, I took six months.
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I will get that output, and so therefore, this is an unconditional promise of God that when I obey my husband, he will treat me right and be won over by my conduct.
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And I don't think that's what the Scripture is saying or that your hope is there, but because you hope in God so much that it is reflected in your obedience to your husband.
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Thoughts on that.
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Yeah, I mean, there's a lot in the Bible that talks about if you do this, then this will happen in a principle, yeah, a general principle you reap what you sow.
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It's a biblical principle.
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So it's not, you know, the karma idea of just like you're putting some kind of energy into the universe and it's going to come around, but it's more of like God has designed the world and human beings and relationships and society to function a certain kind of way.
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And so you, in the same way that you can expect, if you plant a seed and water it, it will grow Right Now.
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Does that happen every time?
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No, sometimes a squirrel comes and, you know, plucks it out of the ground, or a bird takes it, or a, you know, a dog comes and takes a dump on your garden and you know, like there's all kinds of stuff that's like okay, doesn't that fertilize?
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Maybe it does Okay, yeah, not ideal for like herbs and stuff that you want to eat, I don't know, but you know what I mean.
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Like there's, under normal circumstances, if you plant a seed and water it, it will give you this result.
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I think you can say with first peter three um, under normal circumstances, if you have a gentle, quiet spirit and you are submissive to your own husband, um, then your conduct, or it says, may win them over.
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It's not a input, this get you know automatic, like of course we, I'm sure you know, we know stories.
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Maybe there's even people listening that are like, like you said, I've been doing that, I haven't seen that result, and maybe it's, you know, the Lord's timing versus our timing type thing.
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You've been doing it for six months.
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It may be six years before you see that change.
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So yeah, it's not an exactly transactional thing, but there are principles.
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In the same way that it's like if you disciple your kids and pray for them and read the Bible with them, they're going to grow up knowing and loving the word and the church.
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But if you have a duplicitous life where you go to church on Sundays and then you never talk about the Lord at home, you can kind of expect them to probably not want anything to do with the church and Christianity.
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One of the things you told me now, from a husband's perspective, like I've been watering and watering and watering and nothing, it's just mud, and I think you I don't know if you want to tell the story, but I'm gonna put you on the spot with it uh, I think you told us the, as you wish, princess bride story.
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So tell me about that and and how, uh, you've sort of just chosen in your life to respond yeah, uh, I think this was like not even too long ago on the podcast, but um talking, about like here I yeah, it was on, it was on, it was.
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Yeah, I thought we were talking about somewhere else.
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No, it was on.
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Oh man, this is like this.
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I'm older now.
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I sort of dementia.
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I probably sitting in very old yeah, um, what, uh, I can't remember what it was, but it was something about like what our pet peeves were.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Your wife said or no, your pet peeve for your wife was her asking you to go downstairs and get her a drink of water or something.
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Well, not downstairs One-story house.
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But you know same thing.
00:18:37.346 --> 00:18:40.509
Sorry, it was like.
00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:48.866
So, when I'm all ready for bed and you know I I've brushed my teeth, I've plugged in my phone, I put you know.
00:18:48.866 --> 00:18:55.226
And then I get in bed and my head hits the pillow and at that point she's like can I have a glass of water?
00:18:55.405 --> 00:18:55.547
Right.
00:18:55.615 --> 00:18:57.201
Also, I don't know where my phone charger is.
00:18:57.201 --> 00:18:57.843
Can you find it?
00:18:57.974 --> 00:19:03.468
And also, you know, it's like man, I've been up, moving around closing down the house, locking doors.
00:19:03.468 --> 00:19:11.751
You know, if you would have asked me that any other point, I could have just done it while I was already up, right, but then when I finally hit my head, hits the pillow, I'm ready to crash.
00:19:11.751 --> 00:19:18.050
Then you ask and it would like frustrate me to no end, um, but I decided one day I was like you know what Cause?
00:19:18.050 --> 00:19:19.696
Like well, it happened, and she'd asked me.
00:19:19.696 --> 00:19:29.356
And then I would have this crisis moment of like Jesus would say yes, serve your wife, but I don't want to.
00:19:29.356 --> 00:19:29.738
And it's annoying.
00:19:29.738 --> 00:19:30.118
You know that?
00:19:30.118 --> 00:19:30.199
Why?
00:19:30.199 --> 00:19:30.318
How?
00:19:30.318 --> 00:19:34.868
Why does it just like get you know, ask me at a different time, like she needs to change.
00:19:34.868 --> 00:19:37.402
And I'll get into this war in my head where I'm one.
00:19:37.402 --> 00:19:41.643
One sense I'd be like serve your wife, be like Jesus, and on the other hand, it'd be like no boundaries.
00:19:41.782 --> 00:19:42.586
She needs to learn.
00:19:42.586 --> 00:19:53.005
And then I just decided, no matter what, I'm just gonna say yes and this is gonna be one of the ways that I um serve my wife.
00:19:53.005 --> 00:19:54.190
It's not really that big of a deal at the end of the day.
00:19:54.190 --> 00:19:57.038
It's very small um, but it feels big when you're like in your flesh, but anyway.
00:19:57.038 --> 00:20:15.637
So I decided like I'm just gonna say yes, no matter what, and I told her that I said um from now on, because there are times when I said no and she would be like your wife is your love of your life that you made vows to, is asking you, and I'm like you have legs you can't get.
00:20:15.637 --> 00:20:17.144
You're not even tired.
00:20:17.144 --> 00:20:19.423
You're like watching a show on your phone right now.
00:20:20.342 --> 00:20:21.914
I'm watching a show simultaneously.
00:20:22.115 --> 00:20:30.905
You know, and, and so then I would get mad, and so, anyway, there would be times when I said no, and you know, and so then I would get mad, and so, anyway, there would be times when I said no, and you know, and felt justified in it, but I was like you know what I'm just gonna?
00:20:30.905 --> 00:20:32.338
This is gonna be a way that I serve my wife.
00:20:32.338 --> 00:20:33.983
I told her, I said I'm gonna say yes, no matter what.
00:20:33.983 --> 00:20:35.195
So if you ask me, I will do it.
00:20:35.195 --> 00:20:42.067
And um, and I say as you wish, princess bride, and uh, and it's it.
00:20:42.067 --> 00:20:44.601
Uh, makes me laugh when I do it takes out.
00:20:44.601 --> 00:20:51.680
You know just like it makes it something when I do it Takes out, you know just like makes it something fun and sweet and cute instead of you know, have you ever run into RUSs?
00:20:53.096 --> 00:20:55.241
Oh, r-o-u-ss Rodents of Unusual Size.
00:20:55.241 --> 00:20:56.346
I have two of them.
00:20:56.346 --> 00:21:02.883
One of them's 12 years old, grumpy old dog and has a problem, and then our puppy, molly.
00:21:02.883 --> 00:21:06.375
They're the main reason I don't sleep at night anymore.
00:21:06.375 --> 00:21:07.519
All my kids sleep through the night.
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.599
Now and now my dogs get up and I have to take them out wow, right, you don't resolve that.
00:21:12.602 --> 00:21:14.826
What'd you say, doggy door will solve it yeah, that's my.
00:21:15.248 --> 00:21:17.119
That's what I'm thinking about right now all right, well, that's good, okay.
00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:24.001
So, um, as you were talking on on sunday, I was excited because it made me want to talk about something this sunday and I thought I'd give you a gift.
00:21:24.001 --> 00:21:24.863
Are you ready for your gift?
00:21:24.863 --> 00:21:25.763
I'm ready, all right.
00:21:25.763 --> 00:21:30.151
So you remember the Mr Weenie poster size.
00:21:30.151 --> 00:21:33.345
Put it on your refrigerator so that you knew how to argue.
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