April 2, 2025
Patience in Marriage: Embracing Growth Together
350: The foundation of a thriving marriage rests on four essential pillars: patience, permanence, purity, and pleasure. While our culture often pushes us to rush straight to pleasure, Pastors Plek and Pastor Holland unpack why the journey through the first three elements creates something far more beautiful and lasting.
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Chapters
00:00 - Patience in Marriage
05:24 - Understanding Your Spouse's Expectations
10:33 - You Married Your Level of Emotional Health
16:46 - Permanence: The Seal Upon Your Heart
24:15 - Purity: Training Children for Future Relationships
33:41 - Pleasure & The Right Order of Love
Transcript
WEBVTT
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor plec, along with pastor holland.
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I'm so glad you're here.
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I'm so glad to be here.
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You know, uh, I used you in a sermon illustration this past week that's right, I knew that.
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Yeah, I did ask.
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I did ask for permission.
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The problem was like I think you know you got the general gist and as I was telling the story, you know, as one does, they start to illuminate the story or illustrate the story and explain the story of how Holland was patient with his wife Jenny, and so I was really kind of after I said it I was like I'm not sure if I was exactly dead on, but I just kind of took the gut feel that I had and then shared it.
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And how did I do?
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You nailed it.
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Oh good, just watched the clip and I did in fact scream you have legs.
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At some point I remember exactly when that happened Did feel convicted.
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During quiet time, Did communicate my predetermined desire to just say yes, no matter what, and say as you wish, as I do it.
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And she has not taken advantage of that, like you brought up as well.
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Hey, that's wild right.
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She appreciates the way that I've chosen to serve and I find joy in it.
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It is very fun for me, and so it has just been a blessing all the way around.
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Well, good, well, I'm glad that I did not lie.
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That's really important.
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So let's talk.
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It worked out well for you, yeah it did work out.
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I was like you know, because I thought I had the main gist and then I was just a little nervous there.
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All right.
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So we talked about four things on Sunday patience, permanence, purity and pleasure.
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And let's just talk through how you've seen patience play out, because I think every one of us you get married to the image of your wife and then you have the reality of your wife, or maybe she marries the image of you and then she gets the reality of you, and so we're both having both husband and wife are having to express and lean on patience in the marriage, and I love the predetermined aspect of that.
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Has she had to have any sort of patience toward you?
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Has there been any part where she's like you know what is there to be patient about?
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I don't, that's what I said.
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I was like you know, when you're this awesome.
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Yes, of course, man, when we got married I was 25 and she was 21.
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Yeah, and we jumped straight into ministry at Wells Branch, yep, and it was.
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You know, she's never known life married life outside of like serving like crazy in ministry, like serving like crazy in ministry, and so, um, and I remember even some of our, some of our fights early on had to do with ministry of like um, we, when we did the first young adult event, um, the live music thing at the coffee place, yes and um, I thought it was so great.
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There's like a big turnout.
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It was like 90 people there.
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It was amazing.
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And, uh, you know, in my head it was like all right, um, it's show time.
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Like there's people here, I'll connect with the guys, you connect with the girls.
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Let's meet back up at the end, exchange information, contact, follow up like ministry, let's go.
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After that first event, she was just like that was so hard, like you just abandoned me the entire time.
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You weren't like I didn't know anyone there, I just felt like you know, and so, like it was this conversation of understanding.
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Oh man, I, um she, she really wanted to do things together, you know, and I was like let's split up and cover more ground you know, and so like I definitely can relate to that, yeah, figuring out how to do ministry together.
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There's a lot of things that I made assumptions about her, or I didn't communicate well, or so she I mean, she's needed tons of patience for me, and you know just the world of ministry, as well as marriage and parenting, and I feel like I've grown a lot, especially the last I don't know five years, um, since when we went from two to four kids and I officially adopted you know, we our youngest two boys.
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That whole process, I think, just required us to really lean on each other and support each other in ways that you know were, um, just took it to a new level and so I feel like we've both grown a ton and have become more patient with each other, more supportive of each other.
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Yeah, I think I would say the same.
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I think Adrian has had to be very patient with me.
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I just didn't know a lot about what healthy married life looked like.
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I didn't really know, and so I think there's a lot of things that she just um, cause her parents are still together They've done a great job in many ways and so it was like there wasn't, um, I didn't have a context for like, what does it look like to do family things?
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It was just like we do ministry, that's what we do, yeah, and so I think she had to be really patient with me, as I've sort of learned through trial and error of what that looks like, of what it means, especially pastorally.
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But then, beyond that, I think what's difficult, I think, for people is one of the things that happens in marriage is, I think you can catastrophize where you, or extrapolate.
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You can say whatever's happening now, it's only going to get worse from here.
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The way this bad situation now is the way it will always be.
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In fact, it's on a trajectory to to being the worst marriage ever.
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And then people want to bail and get out because they're like I don't have the patience to deal with the reality of our life and I and I think that's just that's just where a lot of people find themselves, and I think this is where you and I both do a lot of coaching and counseling of couples, and so what are some of the ways that you sort of encourage couples to be patient with one another?
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If you could think of that.
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I think what you brought up about catastrophizing did I say that right, yeah, yeah, catastrophizing, yeah, like catastrophe.
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Make that into a verb.
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Yeah, extrapolating out, you know the phrase that always gets thrown around with like parenting stuff of.
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Like this too shall pass.
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Yeah.
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It's not necessarily true with marriage.
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As much you know parenting the babies are, you know they're growing, they have these phases and marriage.
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Usually the problems you're dealing with are like well, they're bad habits People developed for you know over time that don't don't necessarily go away.
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But time itself doesn't make things go away.
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But time plus prayer, plus community plus God's word.
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Um, and the time part is a really important part of that, though, and so just letting people know like hey, like what I've encouraged a lot is saying like hey, this problem that your husband has, you know, he's in his 30s, he's probably had this problem for 20 years.
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He's trained on how to be like this for this whole.
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Exactly, and so you can't expect it to go away overnight or in a week or whatever.
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I mean, there's, yes, god can change someone like that, but God often, you know, works through time and patience and perseverance for a lot of different reasons, and so encouraging that it took 20 years to get there.
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Don't think it's going to turn around overnight.
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You got to be patient.
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No that's good.
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I think one of the things I always remember people is that you married.
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There's two ways to say this.
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The positive way would be like you married the exact emotional health of you, meaning you were drawn to, you were able to I don't know if gets the right word the exact emotional health of who you are.
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So if you had to kind of rope somebody into marrying you, uh, or convince them, or like you know, like you know, you were able to, kind of you made it happen.
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Well, somebody who you can kind of like force to marry you is probably not emotionally super healthy.
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And so you're, you're, you're getting somebody that's probably not at a at a level of health that you would want, but because you roped them in or they weren't able to commit or whatever the thing was.
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And so I think sometimes people can either have the attitude of, like I can change them, or or, uh, they give them more credit for where they're at, uh, than they have, and they also give themselves more credit where they are emotionally health-wise, uh, than they are, and I think that all of that is problematic.
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And so one of the things I want to remind people is you're just as screwed up as they are.
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You just can't see it.
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Yeah, that's good, Very encouraging.
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Yeah, that's good, and I know that— Very encouraging.
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Yeah, because it's not like you just got—no one duped you.
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Like, I think that's what—I think sometimes I run into couples and they're like he lied to me.
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I'm like, no, you chose to believe the lie because you knew, you saw every red flag and then you chose to believe it.
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And so perhaps the reason why you're not getting instant transformation is God is working on you, something that he is transforming in your life, and I think that's just where a lot of people are at that whenever they're marrying their level of emotional health, and so therefore, you can only expect that, as time goes on, you're probably going to grow at different rates, but there's still growth to be had, and who they were at age 25 is probably not who we're going to be at 45.
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And that's a good thing, you know, for as much as everybody wants to be 25 again.
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We all made some pretty bad decisions, whether it's emotionally, spiritually, physically, whatever we did, and so now what God can do is redeem it.
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But I think to your point, time isn't the healer.
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Jesus is, and so that's why we have to take all that stuff.
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That has been, but he takes time.
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He takes his time.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Right, right, yeah.
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So Jesus does take the time and that maturing process is where he's going to, over time, retrain you and it just takes time.
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So it took you 20 years to be this messed up.
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It's probably going to take you another 20 years to be this healthy, and I think that's where we can.
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I don't know.
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Maybe 10.
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Maybe there's like a half-life rule.
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There's a coefficient that we need to work with.
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I don't know, yeah, I don't know, what's the coefficient of life change that can happen through Jesus.
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Formulaic, it would be really way easier in ministry, but yeah, I think that's huge.
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Okay, so patience was the first thing.
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I think everyone needs to understand that patience happens because God is working on you as well as working on the marriage and the mission.
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Okay, second thing we talked about was permanence and kind of the one of the things I brought up as far as permanence, the seal upon the heart.
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Did you talk about this when you preached through it?
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Of course, of course you did, because you know all things.
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The seal was not actually like a tattoo, because my first thought was like, oh, it must be like a sweet seal tattoo, not like a tattoo of a seal, but like a seal of Adrian on my heart.
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But that's not what it is.
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It's actually a seal.
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Back then was like a two-inch cylinder thing that you put around your neck and it was a piece of stone or metal that you could seal something with and it was like your name was on it and you always kept it close to your heart because it was super valuable and you didn't want that getting in the wrong hands.
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And that's what I say.
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Make me like that.
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I want to be the very effect of your name, so that if we do split up and do ministry, I am representing you well, or we can do it together and I can represent you in person.
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There you go.
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Good idea, do it together.
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And we talked about how love is that powerful though Love is that permanent, that powerful.
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Love is fierce as the grave.
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It's strong as death, and we really got into this part.
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I think we talked about it on the podcast before.
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I said there's two different angles of relationship advice.
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You've got Paul, which he gives Holy Spirit-inspired wisdom about how to be married.
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In fact, he's like listen, husbands, you're to represent Jesus, like your marriage is primarily about you being Jesus to the church.
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And wives, you are to represent the church in submission to Jesus, and that is your role to play.
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Hus.
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Wives, you are to represent the church in submission to Jesus, and that is your role to play Husbands.
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Love your wives like Christ.
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Loved the church.
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Wives, respect your husbands as to Christ, which you're like that's exactly what a single guy would say, which is great and it's Holy Spirit inspired.
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But he doesn't get into like how to do that specifically.
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He goes very broad, what that looks like.
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He doesn't talk about saying as you wish.
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However, peter, I brought up that Peter was married and he's right there in line theologically, but what Peter did was he kind of brought out a little more, as he's talking about suffering, which I appreciate that what Paul was talking about.
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He was just talking about how the general relationships between you know husbands and wives, with your boss, with you know slaves and masters, how to do your children, and then Peter gets into suffering and he's like here's how to suffer, well, and then he's like wives if you're married to someone who doesn't obey the word, here's how you're supposed to conduct yourself which I was like leaning in here as Peter is writing two wives because he is one who's probably had a wife who had to deal with him, which I just sort of thought about.
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That, as you know, it was probably a pretty big deal for their marriage.
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When Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law.
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When you think about that like as one who was on the road doing ministry a lot and had to sacrifice a ton, he could at least always go like, hey, your mother-in-law got—or your mom got healed.
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Now I don't know if he did that.
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I might do that.
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But like that's—I thought that that was sort of interesting he's able to kind of go from the perspective of a married guy Like here's how you should treat him, so that even if he's not obeying the word and we know like Peter historically did not obey the word consistently as a pastoral person, which I just, and Adrian always likes to remind me that the same weaknesses we have at our church are the same weaknesses in our marriage, and I'm like thanks, and so what he's realized, like here yeah, it was very helpful.
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It's like so, here's what you need to do.
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Peter says to the wives it's like this is how you're going to change them.
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Let without a word.
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He's probably like speaking from experience.
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Your words are not going to help.
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It's your conduct that's going to change.
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Your words are going to help when it's respectful speech.
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In fact, let's go with calling him Lord, which I love.
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That I mean he's going back to the Old Testament, and I love that he picks out Abraham and Sarah, which I don't really think of them as like a model couple, right To like hey, you know what I want our marriage to be like Abraham and Sarah.
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Yeah, to be like Abraham and Sarah.
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Yeah, like Sarah gives a hall pass, that goes badly.
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Next thing you know they have a blended family and he's like I was just doing what you— After he offered her up to Pharaoh and— he's given her away twice.
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What's his name?
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The other king, yeah?
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yeah, he's like I've given you away— yeah, I mean, imagine how Sarah had to have felt.
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So if you felt you've been mistreated in your marriage and are expected to be a godly person, sarah as the mother of all of our faith, so to speak had it worse.
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Yeah, Is that fair?
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Fair, yeah, you haven't been given away twice.
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You haven't been given away so much that you're just like fine, take another woman, let's see what happens.
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Yeah.
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Gosh, that is kind of wild Now that I think about it like Abraham gave Sarah away twice and then Sarah gave Abraham away.
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Okay, yeah yeah, peter doesn't refer to Abraham as being an awesome husband in that passage?
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No, he doesn't he brings up that to highlight Sarah's submission and honor and respect for him, even though he was a poor spiritual leader.
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Actually.
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Right.
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And what I think I love about the Bible and I know this might be the part where Adrian always hates it when I kind of go into these things but I love the Bible because it's reality Like, of course, the first family you know, Abraham and Sarah were jacked up.
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Because we are all jacked up.
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I frankly appreciate that and it gives me great hope that God could use even me and my marriage and our church and your church and your marriage to bring people closer to God.
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So he kind of says hey, wives, essentially win your husband over who doesn't obey the word over through submissive, respectful conduct and speech, even when he doesn't obey the word.
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And then the other thing I thought was just fascinating is focus your inner spirit as the attraction, not the outer.
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And I think probably women throughout the ages I'd say this is ancient today think I need to win my husband over by losing a few pounds or whatever.
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And I don't think that is what men ultimately that have been married for 10, 15 years are thinking about.
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They're not thinking like if she doesn't lose some pounds, man, I don't know if we can get this thing going.
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And the beautiful thing is what we talked about the way God wired our brains is that he made your brain attracted to the current version of your wife through sex, which is just sort of wild to think about of.
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That's how God designed it.
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Wife through sex, which is just sort of wild to think about of that's how God designed it.
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So when a woman doesn't focus on her outward appearance and she focuses on her inward appearance, it makes her ultimately way more attractive to her husband and that kind of facilitates and creates the deeper relationship.
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And then, on the flip, when we talked about this I think last week, of husbands living with their wives in an understanding way, like when you live with your wife with the intention to understand her heart.
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It's a prescription from God's word.
00:17:43.881 --> 00:17:54.571
But I think both of these are prescription from God's word of like, because if you're at a place in your marriage like I don't know how to go forward Wives, you've got essentially two things.
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How to go forward Wives, you've got essentially two things you know obey your husband, uh, or be be submissive to him, even if he's not um, obeying the word and your speech and conduct.
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And then focus on your inner spirit, men, your role.
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The prescription for you is live with your wives in an understanding way.
00:18:12.748 --> 00:18:14.971
So love, I just appreciated that.
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Yeah, I think, even like the situation I brought up with Jenny and I and ministry stuff and different approaches or expectations, that concept of all frustration comes from unmet expectations.
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Of all frustration comes from unmet expectations and, um, if you don't know what the expectations are, a lot of times they're not going to be met and you're going to be frustrated.
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And so you know, living with your wife in an understanding way or according to knowledge, is seeking to understand her heart, understand her expectations.
00:18:51.473 --> 00:18:59.419
So, like that conversation I had with Jenny helped me understand her expectations and now, you know, the next time it's like all right, hey, there's a ministry thing going on.
00:19:00.105 --> 00:19:11.576
I could, instead of just assuming, you know, yeah and going in with a different set of expectations, I could live in an understanding way, understanding her heart and lead through.
00:19:11.576 --> 00:19:19.515
Hey, here's the best way to approach this ministry event and so that we can serve the Lord, you can feel cared for, we can bond closer together.
00:19:19.515 --> 00:19:26.076
That comes through knowledge, and knowledge comes through relationship, questions, talking about those things.
00:19:26.076 --> 00:19:31.825
So you can't live with your wife in an understanding way if you never make time to talk to her and listen to her heart and understand her Right.
00:19:32.925 --> 00:20:03.536
I think this is where and I know people get kind of upset with this, but I'm going to say it anyway Sometimes we have have quality time without quantity, time of like, you know, unless you have an agenda, and someone's sort of like here's the things we're going to address, but that sort of feels like a lot of force.
00:20:03.536 --> 00:20:11.829
But I think what happens a lot for couples is they don't ever talk about the things of their heart because they don't have enough quantity of time to get to the quality of time.
00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:18.970
They turn the show on, they go mindless and you know hours pass and they're sitting right next to each other, not communicating.
00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:21.576
Yeah, and listen, I think we've all been.
00:20:21.576 --> 00:20:23.410
This isn't like you stink, this is a.
00:20:23.410 --> 00:20:24.914
We've all been guilty of it.
00:20:24.914 --> 00:20:33.079
Uh, but I think some intentionality behind spending time with your spouse can be watching your favorite show.
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:40.477
But probably more importantly is that you've got to understand her heart and you've got to relay the things that are on yours as well.
00:20:40.477 --> 00:20:43.788
That way you can experience growth in the relationship.
00:20:43.788 --> 00:20:46.575
Otherwise you put on pause just the regret or bitterness.
00:20:47.017 --> 00:20:54.626
Yeah, the next part we talked about was purity, and this one I went to kind of an I don't want to say it's an odd direction.
00:20:54.626 --> 00:20:58.616
I did love how the brothers chime in here.
00:20:58.616 --> 00:21:05.797
We have a little sister and she has no breast and that line in and of itself in the Song of Solomon has to be one of the.
00:21:05.797 --> 00:21:13.057
I don't want to call it funny, but you know, you're just like if you read that at a public reading and you go where is this coming from?
00:21:13.057 --> 00:21:17.988
Very few people are like Bible, that's just.
00:21:18.008 --> 00:21:31.412
But it was fun, like it was a fun thing to sort of read, as they kind of say, like hey, we have a younger sister, she's still young, but someday she's going to grow and develop and how are we supposed to treat her?
00:21:31.412 --> 00:21:39.154
And then they kind of give it, you know, parenting, even if it's brothers who probably had to take on the role of an absent dad or a father passed away.
00:21:39.154 --> 00:21:41.638
Um, how are we supposed to?
00:21:41.638 --> 00:21:43.489
What are we supposed to do?
00:21:43.489 --> 00:21:44.652
And then they came up.
00:21:44.672 --> 00:21:46.497
It's like, hey, we're gonna parent her uniquely.
00:21:46.497 --> 00:21:56.175
If she's a wall, then we'll build a battlement of silver, we're gonna decorate her wall, we're gonna celebrate her wall way to go, she is pure and we're gonna help her attract the right guy.
00:21:56.175 --> 00:21:59.516
But if she's a door, like you know, guys are always in and out of her life.
00:21:59.516 --> 00:22:14.407
We're gonna close with boards of cedar, not not so attractive, just like brown and there, uh, and so I thought that was sort of a fascinating reality focused on the boards of cedar being like, not as attractive as opposed to like no, we're gonna board her up.
00:22:14.428 --> 00:22:24.425
Oh sorry, no, it wasn't a coffin but they were but a battlement of silver right we're going to step in and and be like protectors for her.
00:22:24.425 --> 00:22:29.866
We're gonna help board her up to keep like yeah I was just contrasting to the battlement of silver.
00:22:30.047 --> 00:22:31.570
Oh, okay like the cedar would be.
00:22:31.570 --> 00:22:36.461
Like you know, I've seen big, scary dudes does not make you very excited about approaching the girl.
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:36.964
Okay, I see, I see.
00:22:37.005 --> 00:22:38.085
Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with that.
00:22:38.085 --> 00:22:41.211
That was what the imagery I was just kind of like.
00:22:41.211 --> 00:22:44.830
I was kind of thinking it was a coffin, honestly like we will kill her.
00:22:44.851 --> 00:22:45.433
But that's not it.
00:22:45.433 --> 00:22:59.902
They were just saying I'm going to protect her because she can't protect herself, and the woman speaks up and she and then I was in his eyes as one who finds peace, and peace is shalom, or completeness, which I just kind of felt like.
00:22:59.902 --> 00:23:05.508
It was a Jerry Maguire movie from like 50 years ago where she goes you know, you complete me, or he would say that to her.
00:23:05.508 --> 00:23:07.816
It was beautiful, so beautiful and so beautiful.
00:23:08.244 --> 00:23:16.049
So the thing that I thought here was lasting love is pure, and one of the things that I the illustration I took to and I would love to hear how you do this.
00:23:16.049 --> 00:23:18.731
Probably you do this really well with family worship.
00:23:18.731 --> 00:23:23.515
Are you guys able to go read the scripture, pray about stuff and sing?
00:23:23.515 --> 00:23:43.532
And when you do that, are there ever questions that come up as you read scripture, that kind of lean towards what kind of man or woman your children should be as a type of spouse they should be looking for, I mean, even as they're as young as they are, because I think is Owen 10 or 11?
00:23:43.553 --> 00:23:54.170
Yeah, and then Lizzie right behind that like about nine-ish, about to be nine, yeah, about to be nine, and so I feel like, and then you got Ethan and Wyatt bringing up the rear, so how are you able, in those times, to talk about these things?
00:23:55.031 --> 00:23:57.498
Yeah, there's some things we'll talk about all together as a family.
00:23:57.498 --> 00:24:00.230
I also, like you know, I'll take them on one-on-one.
00:24:00.925 --> 00:24:05.050
We'll have one-on-one time together to talk through, the more like, okay, what do you really think about this?
00:24:05.050 --> 00:24:16.987
And especially Owen, now he's about to be 11 this summer and so, yeah, having those kinds of conversations with him as a father really important.
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