Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:03.565 --> 00:00:06.370
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
00:00:06.370 --> 00:00:13.576
I'm so glad all of you are joining us, and with me in studio is none other than my very sweet wife, adrian pleckenpool.
00:00:13.576 --> 00:00:14.018
How are you doing?
00:00:14.018 --> 00:00:21.260
I'm doing great feeling, really sweet today there's nothing sweeter actually and also with us in studios, none other than hayley hanks.
00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.004
Hayley, welcome back.
00:00:23.004 --> 00:00:24.025
Thank it's.
00:00:24.025 --> 00:00:25.187
Uh, it's been a while.
00:00:25.187 --> 00:00:27.350
It's like been a couple of months, but it's been.
00:00:27.350 --> 00:00:32.426
How has I said the flood would come of people and people wanting counseling from you.
00:00:32.685 --> 00:00:32.947
Yes.
00:00:33.006 --> 00:00:34.490
You just pull that mic way close.
00:00:34.490 --> 00:00:42.707
And uh, you said that there was a, at first a little bit, but then finally you're getting a good, steady stream of people.
00:00:43.046 --> 00:00:52.295
Yes, I would say, at least half, if not maybe slightly more, of my entire caseload is from here.
00:00:52.555 --> 00:00:52.795
Okay.
00:00:53.156 --> 00:00:53.337
Yes.
00:00:53.659 --> 00:00:58.912
Well, we were just talking about something before we went on the air or, I guess, started recording.
00:00:58.912 --> 00:01:05.262
Adrian, you're in a really cool book that really I feel like all counselors should recommend Peter Scazzaro.
00:01:05.262 --> 00:01:07.709
He is a pastor out of New York.
00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:13.509
He wrote a book called Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, but you're doing a little devotional book with your community group.
00:01:13.509 --> 00:01:26.141
Talk to me about it and then you were just sharing with Haley what it was and I kind of want to make sure that can be a great starting point for helpful books that will help people move forward in their proper aligning their emotions with Jesus.
00:01:26.802 --> 00:01:26.981
Yep.
00:01:26.981 --> 00:01:45.028
So Emotionally Healthy Spirituality is a great book that kind of marries a lot of like Christian truth and principles with a lot of like counseling concepts in a way that is, like I think, healthy and productive.
00:01:45.028 --> 00:01:53.662
So it doesn't allow you to sit in the like trauma of your of your background and just live as a victim of it and like over spiritualize it.
00:01:53.662 --> 00:02:04.503
But it does kind of give credence to that, while also adding some scripture and helping you learn how to like apply scripture in a way that is effective for healing it's and but the book breaks it down.
00:02:04.503 --> 00:02:18.897
It's really great and the book kind of calls out lots of coping mechanisms and it's real exposing, when you read it, of things that you can often identify from as you read but wouldn't have maybe been able to articulate on your own.
00:02:18.897 --> 00:02:19.478
So it's great.
00:02:19.478 --> 00:02:24.311
But there is a devotional book that my community group, so my community group.
00:02:24.350 --> 00:02:27.066
Let me just you know, let's book that my community group.
00:02:27.066 --> 00:02:27.586
So my community group.
00:02:27.586 --> 00:02:29.171
Let me just you know, let's talk about all your community groups.
00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:32.022
So let me just say this I'm going to this is.
00:02:32.022 --> 00:02:33.187
They deserve this.
00:02:33.326 --> 00:02:34.651
Okay, I hope they're listening.
00:02:34.790 --> 00:02:39.789
Okay, so for two years I was shepherding this.
00:02:39.789 --> 00:02:47.805
My favorite people Okay, it's my close friends, I love them and I being a shepherd of your peers is like terrible and so.
00:02:47.805 --> 00:02:49.617
But somebody had to like have the emails.
00:02:49.617 --> 00:02:59.860
Okay, so I I get the emails and technically I'm like supposed to be leading, but really it's like this collaborative group of all of us are, like you know, pretty competent.
00:02:59.860 --> 00:03:08.544
So I came in and I was like hey, I think the best course of action would be for us every week to discuss, because there's this desire to talk about how many are there in this group?
00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:11.228
Oh, there's eight now, but there was six at the time.
00:03:11.228 --> 00:03:19.151
But the desire was to talk about Bible and life, and so giving everyone a chance to have a life update was terrible.
00:03:19.151 --> 00:03:24.286
That was way too much talking, it took up the whole time and there was no scripture, there was no Bible discussion.
00:03:24.286 --> 00:03:29.105
So too much talking, it took up the whole time and there was no scripture.
00:03:29.105 --> 00:03:29.401
There was no Bible discussion.
00:03:29.401 --> 00:03:39.782
So, anyway, my question was what is something that you have read in the last two weeks Cause we meet every two weeks so something you've read in the last two weeks that was either encouraging or convicting, read in your Bible, let me caveat in your Bible, reading that was either convicting or encouraging.
00:03:40.002 --> 00:03:41.485
And what is something?
00:03:41.485 --> 00:03:44.229
And like how was it convicting and encouraging?
00:03:44.229 --> 00:03:47.693
And then, what is something that you're going to do as a result of what you've learned?
00:03:47.693 --> 00:03:49.015
Well, guess what?
00:03:49.015 --> 00:03:52.146
People never still don't know what the question was.
00:03:52.146 --> 00:03:56.348
It was too hard, it was too confusing, it was like we needed to repeat it every time.
00:03:56.348 --> 00:04:05.052
I would text it out to the group every time before a group and it was still just really difficult, and every time we would start sharing, people would have to be reminded.
00:04:05.173 --> 00:04:06.775
Was it because they weren't reading their Bible, or what?
00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:09.228
You know, I don't know.
00:04:09.228 --> 00:04:11.105
It seems like a fairly straightforward question.
00:04:11.105 --> 00:04:11.707
It sure does.
00:04:12.161 --> 00:04:13.385
Not to knock your crew.
00:04:13.385 --> 00:04:15.306
What would you do in this situation?
00:04:15.306 --> 00:04:17.165
What would you assess?
00:04:18.062 --> 00:04:19.920
Let me ask you this Would you be able to?
00:04:20.021 --> 00:04:21.062
answer such a question.
00:04:21.062 --> 00:04:23.666
Yeah, I feel like I would be able to answer such a question.
00:04:23.666 --> 00:04:25.168
Yeah, I feel like I would be able to answer such a question.
00:04:25.189 --> 00:04:34.564
Now you're going to put me on the spot, but it's not because I don't understand the question Like these this group had a little bit of a heads up right To think through their answer.
00:04:34.584 --> 00:04:35.848
So it wasn't an issue every week, right, every week, every week.
00:04:35.848 --> 00:04:39.382
What have you read in your Bible in the last two weeks that has been encouraging or convicting Is?
00:04:39.382 --> 00:04:40.706
That the question yeah.
00:04:40.766 --> 00:04:44.012
Have you read anything in the Bible in the last two weeks that's been encouraging for you or convicting?
00:04:44.291 --> 00:04:44.593
Both.
00:04:44.593 --> 00:04:46.764
Yeah, yeah, see, okay, good, so you probably have an answer.
00:04:46.764 --> 00:04:47.788
So this is the thing.
00:04:47.788 --> 00:04:50.488
People are having a hard time answering.
00:04:50.488 --> 00:04:58.446
And then, when it came to like what's something you could do, well, that was like very challenging and nobody could come up with, and I'm like, well, I'll tell you.
00:04:58.446 --> 00:05:00.242
Okay, that was the big joke.
00:05:00.262 --> 00:05:01.124
That was the big joke.
00:05:01.124 --> 00:05:02.286
Were you able to assess that?
00:05:02.387 --> 00:05:03.548
So no, I never did.
00:05:03.548 --> 00:05:05.552
But I was like, listen, maybe here's some idea.
00:05:05.552 --> 00:05:15.992
So what would happen is like it was fine, but it just didn't go very well and it was very clear that this method was not working for the group.
00:05:15.992 --> 00:05:19.410
But I was like at a loss because I'm like what else are we going to do?
00:05:19.410 --> 00:05:21.447
Because we had tried going through curriculum.
00:05:21.447 --> 00:05:22.189
Well, that doesn't work.
00:05:22.189 --> 00:05:26.168
People don't do their homework consistently.
00:05:26.057 --> 00:05:27.151
That is always the case, people don't ever do their homework.
00:05:27.151 --> 00:05:29.595
I don't feel like in a small group type of a setting.
00:05:29.595 --> 00:05:31.725
No, why is that?
00:05:31.725 --> 00:05:32.206
Hold on.
00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:35.146
I want to know just real quick, haley, why do people not do that?
00:05:35.146 --> 00:05:40.273
Give me your professional opinion on why people don't do what they commit to doing.
00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:51.803
Well, I don't think it's a professional opinion, it's just a.
00:05:51.824 --> 00:05:54.975
I mean, people are busy, which isn't an excuse but it's just, you know, it's like one more thing to fit into probably an already overpacked schedule.
00:05:54.995 --> 00:05:55.677
Now, do people actually have time?
00:05:55.677 --> 00:06:03.507
Yes, because I'm sure they scroll on Facebook all of us that claim I don't have enough time are, yes, scrolling through Facebook or watching a show in the evenings or something.
00:06:03.507 --> 00:06:08.771
So there is time, but it feels sometimes like I don't have time for this.
00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:10.101
And here's the.
00:06:10.101 --> 00:06:10.764
This is the thing.
00:06:10.764 --> 00:06:15.163
So my my thought on it is like I didn't really do my hair today.
00:06:15.163 --> 00:06:18.411
It feels very flat and I'm struggling, okay.
00:06:18.692 --> 00:06:38.427
So, um, my thought about it is, if this curriculum is not your quiet time time, like if you're trying to connect with God and this curriculum is not that well, then that's going to be very hard to fit in, because, assuming you're making the time to read your Bible and have your quiet time, well then this curriculum is just totally a deviation of that and it's really not as important as that.
00:06:38.427 --> 00:06:44.642
And so I was kind of giving benefit to the doubt that that might have been the problem, but it wasn't the problem.
00:06:44.642 --> 00:06:46.103
It wasn't the problem, but it wasn't the problem.
00:06:46.103 --> 00:06:47.285
It wasn't the problem actually.
00:06:47.285 --> 00:06:59.591
So we and here's the thing when we started the group it wasn't we weren't all friends yet, like I was connected to everyone, but everyone was connected to each other, right, and so that was when our homework skills were on target, like everybody did a great job.
00:06:59.992 --> 00:07:04.214
Cause they were trying, they cared about wanting to come and it was uncomfortable.
00:07:04.214 --> 00:07:06.997
Coming was uncomfortable discussion Like didn't?
00:07:06.997 --> 00:07:15.182
People didn't feel free to be super vulnerable yet and so sticking to a?
00:07:15.201 --> 00:07:15.584
curriculum was safe.
00:07:15.584 --> 00:07:15.764
It was.
00:07:15.764 --> 00:07:17.132
It was solving a problem for them to go ahead and do the homework.
00:07:17.132 --> 00:07:21.225
So this, so the curriculum you're on now, or the book Emotionally Healthy Spirituality that is the thing that you feel like is have you?
00:07:21.225 --> 00:07:22.908
Have you done it yet, or you're on your first week now?
00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:23.870
First week.
00:07:24.011 --> 00:07:24.271
Okay.
00:07:24.531 --> 00:07:25.213
But here's the thing.
00:07:25.213 --> 00:07:32.434
So, after everyone got comfortable and familiar, the homework studying failed.
00:07:32.434 --> 00:07:52.492
And then we did Bible recap last year and the idea was like, okay, maybe Adrian's question is just too hard, so what we'll do is we'll just discuss the Bible recap and what we learned, but then we would get off on like random tangents that were very irrelevant and so this, so, so Leah Brown is actually to be credited for this.
00:07:52.492 --> 00:07:58.805
So she, she found this book, yes, and she goes, adrian, listen to it.
00:07:58.946 --> 00:08:05.632
And I listened to the intro, and the intro is like how do you apply the word of God to the practical things in your daily life?
00:08:05.632 --> 00:08:17.973
This walks you through, and the first whole week of devotionals is all about busyness and it's about schedule and it's about, kind of like, the motives behind why you might be too busy or too chaotic in your life.
00:08:17.973 --> 00:08:23.192
And it talks about, like, living your life, you know, proactively, not reactionarily.
00:08:23.192 --> 00:08:24.422
And it's great.
00:08:24.422 --> 00:08:31.199
And I'm, as I'm reading it, like to me all of this is just like yep, this is the only way to do it, this.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:32.845
I've been doing it since I was like 17.
00:08:32.845 --> 00:08:39.505
But what I'm learning is that, like that, I don't know where, I don't know, like what you think is like basic brushing your teeth.
00:08:39.525 --> 00:08:40.407
They think it's rocket science.
00:08:40.807 --> 00:08:44.212
Well, I wouldn't say rocket science, I would say like new thought and convicting.
00:08:44.212 --> 00:08:46.416
And I'm like, okay, this makes sense now.
00:08:46.416 --> 00:09:01.240
So, of course, all this time this has been so hard because there was so many obstacles to Bible reading time and to the ability to apply the Bible, and this book is now set to where we're going to learn how to like apply, and it's already doing it.
00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.922
So you read a little scripture and then they ask you a question.
00:09:04.261 --> 00:09:04.501
Wow.
00:09:05.322 --> 00:09:09.245
And the question is like a very obvious question to what you've just read.
00:09:09.245 --> 00:09:15.448
And in my quiet times I'm asking that question kind of naturally, like I'm coming up with it.
00:09:15.448 --> 00:09:27.196
Well, you just find like if today I read, okay, today in my quiet time I read it was like Luke 7, I believe, and it was talking about John the Baptist and like John the Baptist sent the messenger to ask Jesus, are you the one that was sent?
00:09:27.777 --> 00:09:35.206
And Jesus says, of course, doesn't ever answer, but gives like a prophecy to You've seen, you know, like the blind.
00:09:35.206 --> 00:09:36.610
See the lame walk.
00:09:36.610 --> 00:09:38.345
Blessed is the one who doesn't fall away.
00:09:38.365 --> 00:09:43.628
Yes, and so his answer, once the messengers get it back to John the Baptist, john the Baptist will be confirmed.
00:09:43.628 --> 00:09:46.374
But like, why doesn't Jesus just say yes and so anyway, I had this whole.
00:09:46.374 --> 00:09:51.812
So I was asking myself questions Like maybe there's value in working with people to help themselves discover things.
00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:53.062
Yeah, I hate helping people.
00:09:53.062 --> 00:09:54.125
I hate doing that.
00:09:54.125 --> 00:09:55.129
It's almost offensive.
00:09:55.129 --> 00:10:02.373
It is offensive, in fact, but I feel like that's if you're a good counselor, you help, which is why I don't call myself a counselor, I'm a coach.
00:10:02.373 --> 00:10:05.596
I don't want to hear you talk, I want to give you opinions, right.
00:10:05.596 --> 00:10:08.684
Which we appreciate but people don't appreciate that they don't, but that's why they like Haley.
00:10:09.027 --> 00:10:11.508
Yeah, so anyway, let me just finish this one thought, and then we can move on.
00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:12.721
So, this.
00:10:12.941 --> 00:10:20.486
The question that the Bible study asks is like, oh, how do you apply this thing Right?
00:10:20.486 --> 00:10:28.673
And then it gets you thinking about your personal life in relation to what you read, and that has been huge already for our small group.
00:10:28.673 --> 00:10:31.155
So I'm like, praise God, we needed a resource.
00:10:31.495 --> 00:10:36.918
It's called inductive Bible study method, which I know that this is like what we've been preaching for years.
00:10:37.220 --> 00:10:38.344
Except it's.
00:10:38.344 --> 00:10:39.568
You would think that but-.
00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:41.488
We asked what did you like about the text?
00:10:41.488 --> 00:10:42.663
What did you not like about the text?
00:10:42.663 --> 00:10:43.607
What does it teach about people?
00:10:45.321 --> 00:10:46.144
What does it teach about people?
00:10:46.144 --> 00:10:46.889
What does it teach about God?
00:10:46.889 --> 00:10:48.879
How can you apply and I just don't think that comes naturally, for some reason, to people.
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.539
I think it's very interesting.
00:10:50.580 --> 00:10:52.524
Jordan Smith here thinks it would be very simple.
00:10:52.524 --> 00:10:53.047
Right, jordan?
00:10:53.047 --> 00:10:55.032
Yep, all right.
00:10:55.032 --> 00:11:01.852
So getting on to that, because the whole premise of the book is you need to be emotionally healthy or God wants you to be emotionally healthy.
00:11:01.852 --> 00:11:10.217
And here's one of the things that I know sometimes, for example in a Christian world, sometimes counseling can get that sort of negative vibe.
00:11:10.217 --> 00:11:13.168
And here's something.
00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:19.629
So Joel, I'll throw Joel on the bus because we had a good moment Because I was like you know the five love languages.
00:11:19.629 --> 00:11:21.307
And he was like, oh, don't even get me started.
00:11:21.307 --> 00:11:23.666
I said why are we so upset the five love languages?
00:11:23.666 --> 00:11:33.688
Do you know that the Bible says that you need to honor one another, that you need to serve one another, that Jesus said that they I chose 12 of you to be with you.
00:11:33.688 --> 00:11:39.530
So you think of quality time, acts of service, gifts.
00:11:39.530 --> 00:11:41.826
Encourage one another.
00:11:41.826 --> 00:11:43.562
That's words of affirmation.
00:11:43.562 --> 00:11:45.083
And what was the other one?
00:11:45.706 --> 00:11:46.768
There's one more, that's words of affirmation.
00:11:47.048 --> 00:11:47.749
And what was the other one?
00:11:47.749 --> 00:11:48.530
There's one more.
00:11:48.691 --> 00:11:50.374
Yeah, physical touch, physical touch.
00:11:51.602 --> 00:11:52.788
Like greet each other with a holy kiss.
00:11:52.788 --> 00:12:03.727
There is reality, like if you're commanded to do it, that means someone's commanded to receive it, and I think sometimes we think the doing and the receiving are disconnected.
00:12:03.727 --> 00:12:07.589
I say this to people all the time and people think I'm kidding, but I'm actually serious.
00:12:07.589 --> 00:12:10.299
Um, uh, I had the gift of receiving.
00:12:10.299 --> 00:12:22.428
So like I feel like I'm I'm on the receiving end of of words of affirmation, I'm on the receiving end of quality time, on the receiving end of gifts, and I think you have to be able to receive, cause I need those things as a part.
00:12:22.428 --> 00:12:23.714
Part now, which one?
00:12:23.714 --> 00:12:26.485
Like in a hierarchy of those, I need them all.
00:12:26.485 --> 00:12:28.113
Uh, it's just probably people.
00:12:28.113 --> 00:12:34.743
The reason why there's a five love wages, it's what you're more apt to give is what you want to receive, but you need to be able to receive all of them anyway.
00:12:35.846 --> 00:12:38.272
I'm not really sure if that's a fair summary of the love.
00:12:38.272 --> 00:12:40.823
It doesn't say it like that right.
00:12:40.844 --> 00:12:41.745
But it doesn't say.
00:12:41.745 --> 00:12:43.008
It says like Right.
00:12:43.248 --> 00:12:44.009
But it doesn't say.
00:12:44.090 --> 00:12:46.854
it says like here's the way people you know give and receive love.
00:12:46.854 --> 00:12:49.126
Right, but I'm saying scripturally, you can back it up.
00:12:49.226 --> 00:12:49.788
Oh, I got you.
00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:56.311
And so when I told Joel that he's like you have just rocked my world, I now believe that you can use the five love language.
00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:57.820
Did Joel think five love language no?
00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.043
he was just like that is dumb, that is, we don't need to, you just need to love one another and suck it up.
00:13:02.043 --> 00:13:07.548
I was like, okay, I get listen, I'm under, I'm all for sucking it up, like that is a one of my favorite things.
00:13:07.548 --> 00:13:11.812
Suck it up buttercup Like that is my favorite one of my favorite quotes.
00:13:12.172 --> 00:13:26.928
However, however, it is scriptural and it is biblical and I think it's Holy Spirit inspired to understand that you have an emotional need, because there's emotional command to go and love people in that manner.
00:13:26.928 --> 00:13:27.951
Okay, so that's my basis point.
00:13:27.951 --> 00:13:45.644
With that said, back to you Recently, john MacArthur and if you don't know who, he's a mega church pastor, pretty hardcore guy as far as like conservative, even evangelical has made several statements regarding PTSD and depression which have been controversial.
00:13:45.644 --> 00:13:53.265
He has been reported to deny the existence of mental illness, referring to conditions like PTSD as non-existent.
00:13:53.265 --> 00:13:59.923
And it's like ADHD and OCD are noble lies to justify medicating people.
00:13:59.923 --> 00:14:06.754
But when he got pinned down he said well, you're not going to deny there's no such thing as PTSD.
00:14:06.754 --> 00:14:19.470
He would say I'm not saying that people don't experience something, but what they're experiencing with OCD, adhd, ptsd are all just other names for grief, and the Bible tells you how to deal with that.
00:14:19.470 --> 00:14:24.011
Now, as our soon to be professional, is that a better way to put that?
00:14:24.011 --> 00:14:24.293
Well, yes, okay.
00:14:24.293 --> 00:14:25.076
So, first of professional.
00:14:25.115 --> 00:14:26.119
is that a better way to put that?
00:14:26.119 --> 00:14:26.440
Well, yes, okay.
00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:27.885
So first of all a couple of disclaimers.
00:14:28.822 --> 00:14:29.563
One as I'm sitting here.
00:14:29.563 --> 00:14:35.799
Well, disclaimer one is just that my stomach is growling very loudly right now and I worry that it's like actually so loud that it's in the mic, it's in the microphone.
00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:37.200
People are listening to your hunger.
00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:39.027
I'm actually distracted thinking about that.
00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:40.142
No, they can't hear you, are you?
00:14:40.142 --> 00:14:41.625
That's not a possibility, not even possible.
00:14:41.725 --> 00:14:43.769
Okay, that's disclaimer number one.
00:14:43.769 --> 00:14:45.894
Disclaimer number two is yes.
00:14:45.894 --> 00:14:49.018
As you and I were chatting prior to this, I just wanted to be cause.
00:14:49.018 --> 00:14:59.269
You were asking if I felt comfortable talking about trauma and I was saying yes and no because, like you know, I am definitely still a newbie.
00:14:59.269 --> 00:15:00.339
I won't try to act like I'm not.
00:15:00.339 --> 00:15:06.714
I'm a counseling intern at the moment graduating associate counseling associate graduating in December.
00:15:07.416 --> 00:15:09.745
Um, I mean, obviously I know a lot.
00:15:09.745 --> 00:15:20.601
I've been in school for two plus years now getting my master's and I'm under supervision, and so it's not that I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't want to ever present to anyone that you know I'm like, I'm an expert.
00:15:20.601 --> 00:15:27.563
At this point I'm not, and especially with trauma, I do feel like that's a whole kind of do you say, niche or niche.
00:15:28.365 --> 00:15:29.850
You know either one is appropriate.
00:15:29.850 --> 00:15:31.600
Okay, which one do you go with, adrian?
00:15:32.001 --> 00:15:33.546
Niche, niche, that's what I do too.
00:15:33.686 --> 00:15:34.869
Niche is way cooler.
00:15:34.928 --> 00:15:47.664
It's like maybe trying to, but I do feel like trauma is a whole niche in itself, and so, um yeah, my disclaimer is just I'm not trying to act like so let's talk about trauma just for a second.
00:15:47.725 --> 00:15:53.245
I you know, I've heard and maybe this is the part where maybe it is grief, but we're calling it trauma.
00:15:53.245 --> 00:15:57.648
I don't even actually care semantically what you call it, but there's big T trauma, small T trauma.
00:15:58.321 --> 00:16:12.764
Talk me you know, like sexual assault or rape or death, or uh.
00:16:12.764 --> 00:16:19.283
I mean, yeah, I think just all the things anyone thinks of when they think of trauma, the very big horrific.
00:16:19.504 --> 00:16:28.759
Horrific is a good word, yes, but little T trauma can be, um, you know, having gone through a difficult divorce could be categorized as little T trauma.
00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:30.604
It's, it's still it has.
00:16:30.604 --> 00:16:32.388
It has changed something.