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275: Pastor Plek and Catie Sas are on the podcast today to discuss the complexities of Old Testament slavery laws and their relevance today. They also explore the connections between parenting and biblical narratives while also discussing race, leadership, and the transformative power of God's word. This is an episode you won't want to miss!
Faith, culture, and everything in between.
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00:04 - Exploring Old Testament Slavery Laws
07:35 - Exploring the Bible and Its Themes
12:29 - Freedom, Equality, and Leadership
24:18 - Heavenly Rewards and Jobs in Heaven
32:39 - Reflections on Race and Cultural Appreciation
45:13 - Joseph and Moses in Writing Bible
Speaker 1:
And welcome back to pastor flex podcast. We are recording live and we are on whatever platform. You're watching us on YouTube and on Facebook, so we want to say hi to everybody on the platform, and with me in studio is none other than Katie sass. Katie, how are you?
Speaker 2:
I'm doing great, just a little bit cold.
Speaker 1:
It is. Yeah, if you're. If we look cold, that's because we are cold and thankfully it. About an hour ago, katie, it was about high forties, low fifties, and I was like God gum it. And I had to do a meeting in the other, in the live from more center, because I was like this is way you were a little worse. I was a was, but there was a small child and the small child had to, you know, watch TV somewhere while we talk. So so, yeah, so, anyway, this is really cold and we're on the weekend of Martin Luther King weekend. Do anything like special or anything for Martin Luther King weekend?
Speaker 2:
I did not.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Do people do well you could go down on the east side. They usually do some sort of March on East Austin. If you go down like 12th, or is it Chicago, chicago, and where there's a huge mural, it's right outside East side Community Church. They usually do some sort of thing.
Speaker 2:
Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's pretty wild, but we did take the day off to celebrate and talk about how our civil rights history and how awesome it is that we live in a free and equal land. But one of the things that's wild is we actually talked about and I wish I would have thought like I planned this, but I didn't we talked about slavery in the Bible on Sunday, on Martin Luther King weekend, which is always sort of a fun thing to think about, and that was it went. What? Okay, you know we kind of talked about. I think what's really hard about these laws in in Exodus is that they're just not super applicable. When you talk about civil laws or like don't boil a kid and your mother's milk, and you're like I don't even own a goat, you know, I think there's a lot of struggle with that.
Speaker 2:
Don't boil a kid in their mother's milk A kid like a kid goat. Oh, I was like where is that in the Bible? I thought you were talking about like a, like a like an actual kid.
Speaker 1:
Well, they actually have laws about don't burn your child.
Speaker 2:
That is actually well, no, I know, but I just was like I haven't heard of that one.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's mother, yeah, mother's milk versus that, exactly that would be an Exodus. No, it's Deuteronomy, Deuteronomy 1421. It's kind of a fun one for everybody, so. But we're in a lot of these laws in chapter 21 specifically has laws on slavery, capital punishment, restitution for malicious intent, restitution for negligence, and then chapter 22 is going to get into, you know, restitution for breaking and entering restitution, for I mean, it's wild.
Speaker 2:
Are we doing every chapter?
Speaker 1:
We're doing it. No no, but you listen.
Speaker 2:
This is the longest sermon series we have ever done.
Speaker 1:
But at least you get to know what's in the Bible. Did you not want to know that part?
Speaker 2:
Well, no, I'm just. I feel like I just read it. I don't know. It's just like I'm not judging. I feel like I'm just ready for a new thing. We're going to move on eventually.
Speaker 1:
But okay, but here's what's important how, when you read the Old Testament and you get to like the slave laws, how do you read them. And I think this is one of the reasons why I felt it was important for us to kind of go through this, because I think and this might be where you think differently but you get to sort of show how to someone can read the Bible devotionally. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
And I think what happens is we sort of, just when we get to those parts of the Bible, you go boring, move on, and I think there is spiritual depth because it clearly is God's word. Now is it God's word that we need to talk about? All is that your go to verse slave laws? No, but I do think it has great value for you to know one word is, because it is God's word, to how it can apply to your life, even if there is a cultural disconnect that's so broad that we don't do slavery, and that's actually God's heart, which is even better, right. So I feel like that's where we get to show, like I think, because I think so much of the time people look at the Old Testament and they either go clearly that God is disconnected from the God of the New Testament. Well, do you not see that? Do you not ever hear people that? are like they go. That can't be the same God and we need to unhitch yourself to your test.
Speaker 2:
I just ignore those people because they just think they know what they're talking about and they're just, they're really stupid.
Speaker 1:
You know what I appreciate about you, Katie. You just follow me blindly. I love it. It's pretty great.
Speaker 2:
I don't you. You think I'm following you blindly. Yeah, clearly no All right. Well, I appreciate that I'm following God, I don't know blindly, but I'm just like, okay, well, but I'm not going to listen to it.
Speaker 1:
Don't you ever have conversations with people who doubt the Old Testament?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I just go okay.
Speaker 1:
Okay, but okay. So anyway, what I guess my heart is I'm not going to try to prove anything to them Like that's fair, Whatever, yeah, All right. Well, so you may. Okay, I appreciate that you're like well here. Let me tell you the reason.
Speaker 2:
Like I'm a boring debater, like you can try to debate me, but I'm not going to fight you, yeah. Okay, I'll fight you on other things, but when it comes to the Bible.
Speaker 1:
You fight me on.
Speaker 2:
Oh man, now you're putting me on the spot.
Speaker 1:
Well, you're fighting me on the importance of. Well, I guess I'll just bring up Exodus 21.
Speaker 2:
Like last week, I wrote a blog about parenting about like Ava's, like sleep terror, just the season of awful, yeah. And I wrote about how, like she used to slam her face into the crib railing to get us to stay in there and like to get us to come back. Cause like she realized that if we started walking out of the room and she slammed her forehead against the railing, that we would come back in a panic and check on her. And so she did that all the time and then, whenever we stopped coming back, then she would flail backwards and slam the back of her head against the crib, against the other side of the wall, to where we eventually had to pad her crib because she was thrashing so hard about having to go to bed. Like she was so pissed that we would have the audacity to care about her sleep that she would slam her body against the crib and rebellion. And so we ended up having to just ignore it. Like to get it to stop, cause we're like, clearly she's doing this for attention, clearly she's doing this, cause there's nothing wrong with her. Like, like we're like there's nothing wrong with you. Like, stop acting like this. And so I wrote in there all of the responsive like I don't even remember what I said all of the, there are going to be a lot of responsive sleeper moms that are going to say she's not being manipulative, there's a need that needs to be met. And did it. And I said I will fight you Like you did not live that. You didn't live that and you don't know my child.
Speaker 1:
And so, yeah, I think so that's where you're going to go to the mat.
Speaker 2:
That's where I will fight you.
Speaker 1:
Parenting.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, okay, fair enough. But when it comes to the Bible, believe it or not, I don't know. Yeah, I guess so, but it's not, that's not my problem that you don't believe it. Fair enough, I'm going to tell you about it, but like I don't have the power to change your mind, so what? I'm not going to look like an idiot.
Speaker 1:
All right, so you have been reading through the Bible.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
Where are you at right now?
Speaker 2:
First Kings.
Speaker 1:
So, and you've had to make it through Genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy.
Speaker 2:
So we started Exodus shortly after I just finished it.
Speaker 1:
Wow.
Speaker 2:
And I was so relieved when I was done because I'm like, oh, finally Moses died and we can like go to a different dude Like I can learn about. Like now we're at Joshua, Like, yay, we can like. And then we start Exodus here and I'm like, dear Lord, baby Jesus, I just read this and I have been dying to get into a new book.
Speaker 1:
But it wouldn't be helpful if you could. When you read the scripture, you weren't just like trying to get through it, but you were looking to find Jesus.
Speaker 2:
No, I wasn't trying to get through it, it's because I'm reading it.
Speaker 1:
Because when you read Exodus, it's not like you're done. You got to go to Leviticus, yeah, and then Numbers, and it's kind of like telling the same story over and over. In fact, then Deuteronomy's second law it's like doing it all over again.
Speaker 2:
Or wait? When does Moses die again? What's before Joshua?
Speaker 1:
No, he does. He dies at.
Speaker 2:
Because I'm like wait now. You're confusing me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, he died. Like you read about Moses, definitely in Numbers, but then Deuteronomy probably the same thing. Yeah, maybe it's there as well.
Speaker 2:
Deuteronomy. Let me fight. I think it's probably Deuteronomy. Anyways, Now I can't remember whatever I had, but I was excited to move on to something new. Yeah it's Deuteronomy, and so I'm like I'm just Okay, no, no, no, maybe not when I finished Exodus. We finished, we started Exodus. When I read the chapter of Moses dying and so is that the end of Deuteronomy? Okay, so that's where I was. So I had just read, I had just lived the life with Moses, okay, and so then I'm coming to church, and now I got to do it all over again. I'm like I was just hanging out with Moses, okay, for a bunch of weeks and I so now I'm just like God, like what's next?
Speaker 1:
What would you want to hear next? Judges, for sure, we know we preach through judges.
Speaker 2:
When the whole thing I'm probably you probably did, but Back in the day when you were a young believer. Yeah, probably, but actually what's been? What was really cool is first and second Samuel.
Speaker 1:
Like I text you and I said if they, made this a movie Hollywood wouldn't need to add anything, it'd be rated R on its own.
Speaker 2:
That's true, all right. Well, back to this particular story.
Speaker 1:
Okay, what?
Speaker 2:
was it about again? So it was about slavery, and these are the rules that you shall set before them when you buy Hebrew slave.
Speaker 1:
He shall serve six years in the seven and he shall show up free for nothing, which to me is like this is wild. They're talking about slavery. Well, they're talking about slavery as the very first thing, right after the Decalogue or the Ten Commandments. Like, okay, now this is from you. You're like I don't care, but like is there any party that thinks that's interestingly? Like why would you do that? Or is it just like you had a list of things, throw them on there and whatever hits the wall of sticks and we'll go with that.
Speaker 2:
I think I would just go with it, all, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Okay, yeah, hey, I can appreciate that Well. To me it was awesome because what it says is God cares about the least of the people by putting them first in priority of who gets law protection, and so I thought that was very fascinating. If, like you know, if the First Amendment was we're going to take care of the poorest of the poor, you would. That would say a lot about what the nation stands for. Do you know what our First Amendment is?
Speaker 2:
Is it freedom of speech? Yeah, there we go Nice.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you were showing I was like you see, that are guns. Well, the fact that you know that is pretty amazing. I mean not.
Speaker 2:
Oh thanks.
Speaker 1:
No, that's not to say that you're dumb, but most people don't know what our First Amendment is. But what they do know is that we're a country based on freedom, Right Like that. If you were to say what's the, what's the? Probably the main thing of our country, it's liberty or freedom, Like that's kind of our slogan.
Speaker 2:
Even though so many idiots in the world think we don't have freedom, but whatever. Yeah Well go to go to another country, Go to the Middle East.
Speaker 1:
That's true. That's where it's very illegal to be a Christian. Okay, so that is sort of like the primary thing for America was freedom. The primary thing here is something way different and way more unique and it's and this is where you is it even a priority. But the whole point is like there is equal. The social class of a person does not determine his value, and a person should be treated as a brother, even if they are a slave, and that's sort of mind blowing, which is then you take goes back to Galatians of like there's neither slave nor free, greek or Jew, barbarian, scythian, slave or free, all for Christ's, all and is in all Like he is. That makes us equal, even though in our social strata we are probably not equal among peers.
Speaker 2:
That's why I have such a hard time with titles.
Speaker 1:
You have a hard time with what?
Speaker 2:
Like I don't care what your title is.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah. Yeah, you do have a hard time with that. It's good for you.
Speaker 2:
I'm going to just treat you how I feel like you should be treated, that I'll admit that that's a struggle of mine. I don't care how high up you are in a company, like if you're a jerk, like.
Speaker 1:
You get jerk treatment.
Speaker 2:
I'm not gonna respect you, like, okay, cool.
Speaker 1:
All right, that's good. All right. Well, how about, like the president were to walk in? Would you be like Joe? We've got issues and we need to talk.
Speaker 2:
I wouldn't be purposefully rude, okay, but I don't think I would like stand and like shake his hand or something.
Speaker 1:
Okay, all right, that's fair. Yeah, I would. I definitely want to meet the guy, and if he would sit down and talk to me I'd share with him all the things I think we could do better, but I feel like See, I'd love to have coffee with Trump. Tell me why.
Speaker 2:
He's just interesting. He's a little more fun, Like I feel like a coffee date or like some sort of like.
Speaker 1:
I don't know, it'd be just fun, he is fun, you know, in Iowa, did you follow the Iowa caucus?
Speaker 2:
The caucus.
Speaker 1:
You know what that is.
Speaker 2:
I don't know what a caucus is.
Speaker 1:
All right, the Iowa caucus the Iowa caucus is where the dip and they do it weird in Iowa. It's where you kind of like elect your people and you finally come to your primary person and Donald Trump, I think, got like 51% and it's over. So not a big shock, I don't think from anybody's perspective, but it's just sort of wild. It's kind of how they do the primary. So and then what's interesting is that the way the Democrats do it is they go to like a big gym and if you want to vote for somebody you have to go sit in their section. And then they look across. They go ooh, you know, biden has this many people, williamson has this many people, phillips has this many people. Ah, man, williamson doesn't look like you got too many. So everybody's in Williamson's camp. You gotta go sit in Biden's section or Phillips section. That's literally how you physically have to go. You have to show up and you sit somewhere and then they count butts in seats literally for the primaries for the Democrats. It's kind of fun. Yeah, it'd be. You know, it's sort of wild. Anyway, yeah all right, so back to what we're talking about. We're really strong to stay focused here.
Speaker 2:
It's because this freaking air conditioning is on above us.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It's kind of like the cooking vent, you know, like when you're cooking dinner. I don't know, did you ever do that? Did you ever cook dinner?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, where there's.
Speaker 2:
you know this smoke vent is above you and it's just going forever, and then you turn it off and it's almost like your brain releases this like sense of relief.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
This like oh, maybe I don't want to burn the house town.
Speaker 1:
Really that makes you want to burn the house town.
Speaker 2:
It, is it, just it's so, it's, it's, it's so over-simulating.
Speaker 1:
Well, so we have a like a Is Adrienne like that? I feel like Adrienne would be like that she is like that, oh, totally like that, but for some reason that sound does not bother her. Every other sound the whole world does, cause we have a like a noise machine to sleep at night. We also just had 11 puppies last night, and so you would think our house sounds like a. Well, the house had 11 puppies last night. But when you turn a sleeping or a noise machine on, you can sleep right through it. It's no big deal so, but when you turn it off, it does feel like someone took like a vice off your head.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, all right. So Okay, back to the, your sermon.
Speaker 1:
Yes, okay, I just thought that you were so intrigued by Clearly. Do you remember anything?
Speaker 2:
of it If I think really hard, like I did talk about Iraq a little bit.
Speaker 1:
Do you remember that part?
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
Well, do you remember what I did?
Speaker 2:
No, I just think you need to stop asking me hard questions.
Speaker 1:
Well, no, listen, I'm just, you know, listen, if the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught. So this is where-.
Speaker 2:
But I don't think that rule can apply to me, because I can zone out in anything Fair enough.
Speaker 1:
So one of the biggest things is like leaders eat last is sort of like one of the things that we talk about in the military all the time.
Speaker 2:
Oh, I do remember when you talked about that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so I flew, like I had this. It was like a cool trip. I mean, first off, flying on helicopters anywhere is awesome. But I got flew on a helicopter from where I was outside of Fallujah to Baghdad, and the whole time I'm flying across the Iraqi airspace. I'm thinking we're gonna get like a air to ground missile or ground to air missile and just get destroyed. But we made it and we get there. I testify against this terrorist. And then they had pizza hut in Baghdad which I was not aware of and I was very excited about it and I got a pizza for me and I ate it that night. And then I went and bought like four, five more and shoved them into a cooler, brought them onto the helicopter on the way back and we're having to fly pretty high but then low and high and so you just wonder how your pizza's gonna make it. And they all made it fine, and we get back and we gave the pizzas to the lowest ranking guy. You don't just give it to like hey officers first, then the NCOs, then the and is that?
Speaker 2:
what? Is that Just you? Or is that like a general policy? That's just a general rule? Okay.
Speaker 1:
You could do whatever you want, but you'll be a complete dirtbag. There were times, like when we were handing out food. I would have nothing, cause they somehow the mess hall worker that was supposed to put the food in our truck didn't give us enough. You know, however, that, and so the first sergeant and I we had. I had like a little scrap of like noodles and that was it, and I was like all right, good thing, I brought an extra MRE.
Speaker 2:
It's so funny to like think that you were this like hardcore guy that talked to terrorists in the army. I just like could, I can't like.
Speaker 1:
I had the same personality, so that makes it even more fun. I just like, can't see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
So it's so weird.
Speaker 1:
It's fun, I loved it. But you also remember, I love like, when stuff was exploding, I love to charge into the fire. Let's go, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Your intensity was probably very fitting for those situations.
Speaker 1:
The intensity matched. Yeah, it was fun. I got to be an airborne ranger Not not exactly something I I've ever thought I would be doing when I was a kid, but it was definitely one of the most valuable things ever.
Speaker 2:
All right, so primary thing was you have the pizza. You have the pizza to the lowest.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, leaders eat last.
Speaker 2:
You applied it to the sermon, and then I said I kind of went to G.
Speaker 1:
So the way I did it devotionally is I said listen, whenever you look at how God put the slaves first, jesus in a sense said listen, this is or yeah, god put the slaves first in the Old Testament and then Jesus says you must be a slave yourself to serve others.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we are slaves to God. And I think that's and then slaves to other people, because we are slaves to God.
Speaker 1:
Whoever wants to be first must be last. Who wants to be graceful must be a slave of all. For even the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. Now, does that push against you in any way? Are you? Do you get annoyed by that? Or is that like, yeah, I need to be serving more people?
Speaker 2:
No, I mean, I think I do need to serve more people. I think if you deny the fact that you could serve more people than you're probably not serving anyone.
Speaker 1:
Right, okay, and that's. I feel like this is where Jesus really again, when he says the greatest must be the slave, he is really doing a economic, social equality thing without touching anybody's money, which is wild to me, because I think this is where some people might say well, this is where this is obviously where Jesus smashing at capitalism. I don't think so. It says whoever must be first or whoever would be first must, among you, must be slave of all. So those with the most resources should come and serve people out of a heart of, because I'm of God. I'm not like the Gentiles, I do it differently and I'm gonna serve people out of the, the goodness that God has placed in my heart, not out of the state's desire for me to have less or everyone to have the same amount. And I think not even in heaven is it like that. Not that I need to make this like a pro capitalism thing, but in heaven there's gonna be people who are in charge of 10 cities, some people are in charge of five cities, some people even charge of a city. Some people are gonna be like street. You know Sammy the sweeper cleaning the gold streets. So I don't know exactly how that's all gonna work, but you're gonna have different levels of responsibility based on how the rewards you've gotten here on earth. That's not new news to you.
Speaker 2:
We're gonna have jobs in heaven.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you don't just get to like sleep on a cloud, you have to work. We were made for work. That was pre-fall, and so when we get to heaven, we're gonna have some people in charge of 10 cities.
Speaker 2:
Wait, where is this? Are you kidding me? No, I'm not Okay. I don't want a job. What do you want? I wanna be in heaven, where I'm heavenly and I get to relax and hang out with Jesus.
Speaker 1:
I think that sounds like if you go to Luke 19. And there's gonna be like so the whole parable, the ten sit like the parable servant who does wait. Hey, you know.
Speaker 2:
Tell me where the Bible says we'll have jobs in heaven.
Speaker 1:
You know we're gonna have her.
Speaker 2:
okay, man, I feel like this is where we need to yeah, you should tell me all about it, cuz clearly I'm stupid and not you're not stupid, let's pull up but no one has ever told me I'm gonna have to have a job.
Speaker 1:
Well, that okay. So not that. Why do you be good? But like the part of there's reward in heaven some people are gonna be saved as throw. You've heard this.
Speaker 2:
But are they fun? Jobs like I don't even what? It is a perfect let's say working at the per.
Speaker 1:
Let's say you worked at the perfect place and you were a perfect person. It'd be, or at least a glorified person You'd be really happy about it. Yeah, you're gonna love your job. Do we get?
Speaker 2:
to pick a job like what, like what? No, we the verse ha, ha ha.
Speaker 1:
All right hold on let me see if I can find. Okay, here's the city, all right. And the King said and well done, good, slave, because you've been faithful in a very small matter. You have a authority over ten cities. Then the second one came and said sir, your might has made five minus. So the King said to him you are, you do your, it would be five cities. And then another slave came and said sir, here is the one mind I put away for safe keeping a piece of cloth. I was afraid, blah, blah, blah. I said I will judge you by your own words, you, wicked slave. You knew you did not. I was severe man, um, severe man, withdrawing that I didn't deposit, reap what I didn't. So why didn't you put my money in the bank? And he's got angry anyway and they took away everything. So that explains nothing. No, it does, because this is a parable.
Speaker 2:
Um, okay it's a parable about, like some dude that didn't put something in the parable. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
So there's heavenly rewards for earthly faith.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 1:
What does it have? Anything to do with having a job. Well, if you're going to be over a city if there's different cities you're given, do you think how does a? How does a city run?
Speaker 2:
What kind of jobs are there going to be in heaven, like? What kind of? What kind of CEO is is going to be running this joint?
Speaker 1:
Jesus.
Speaker 2:
Well, what kind of jobs does he make for people? I don't even know Like this is news to me, okay, oh how about this?
Speaker 1:
Remember when I said whenever, whenever, james and John. This is a part in the sermon. James and John came to Jesus. They said hey, jesus, put us each at your one at your left, one at your right when you come to your kingdom. What do you think that meant?
Speaker 2:
They're hanging out.
Speaker 1:
They wanted positions of authority and power authority over a group.
Speaker 2:
They were rejected.
Speaker 1:
Sure Sort of. They said it's not his to grant but the father in heaven is going to decide who gets that.
Speaker 2:
Okay, you're still not giving any clarity on where in the Bible does it say we'll have jobs in heaven?
Speaker 1:
You're. What? Are you going to? Just float around and play a harp?
Speaker 2:
I'm going to hang out and for and have fun and just be happy, and and is it? What else are you supposed to do in heaven? You're supposed to do what Jesus tells you to do.
Speaker 1:
So you've got the not have a job Hold on During the millennial kingdom which you know, that's a thousand year reign of Christ on earth and then, at the end of that thousand years, God's going to turn Satan loose and come to see a bunch of people and then, Jesus is going to destroy them all, right? You remember that part.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
So how do the cities run when you're living there in a glorified body with all the non glorified people running around?
Speaker 2:
They just run, it just runs, okay, it just we, just we just exist in heaven and we're happy.
Speaker 1:
But.
Speaker 2:
But but you have it. It's leisurely right.
Speaker 1:
I mean remember, for in Jesus you're always resting right. You are so angry, you're giving me the look like you're so because you're not even giving any clarity on this like idea that we're going to have jobs in heaven.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 1:
Gosh Okay.
Speaker 2:
You read me a. You read me some texts that had that had no clarity. Um actually just confused me even more, so all right. I can't be the only one that is caught off guard by this. Am I the only idiot that goes to church Like does anybody else All?
Speaker 1:
right Is anybody else. So we are going to be servants who serve Jesus. Revelation 223.
Speaker 2:
Right yeah, serving what is that?
Speaker 1:
Is that not?
Speaker 2:
worth. It's not a job.
Speaker 1:
How is that not a job? What do you define a job as?
Speaker 2:
Uh, you go to work Like I'm. I'm a teacher, a preschool teacher, um photographer. Yeah, I now sell Monet, which is hair, hair and skincare. Oh nice, as of like two days ago I just was thought maybe it'd be fun.
Speaker 1:
Okay, excellent, so all right.
Speaker 2:
So I'm only going to work if it's fun.
Speaker 1:
Well it's going to be you're working for Jesus, who's the best boss, and you'll be serving him, and that's pretty good, then why would he give us jobs? Oh gosh, okay, all right, but he created us to work.
Speaker 2:
Remember Genesis. I would like that's just 215 here I want you to work.
Speaker 1:
Here's the land, and.
Speaker 2:
I like. I get it Like the proverb 31 woman she, she worked and she's provided, she helped provide for in fact, how about this?
Speaker 1:
How about this? How about, like Jesus said, that my father is always working Like? Have you ever seen that? Um?
Speaker 2:
yeah, cause he's a man, oh, there's work.
Speaker 1:
If it's, if it was like the man, he's always worked. If it's the men have jobs.
Speaker 2:
Why did the? Why did the women have job? Jobs too. Listen, I'm not a. I'm not a feminist.
Speaker 1:
Listen trad wives everywhere Rejoice.
Speaker 2:
Don't give me a job. I don't want to work.
Speaker 1:
Okay, all right, I don't, maybe he'll help. He'll let you wear on the social media account.
Speaker 2:
Like, if it's fun. If it's fun, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:
Um so the problem with the if it's fun, I'll do it. That puts you in charge.
Speaker 2:
Like I just want to know it just does what his master says. I just want to know what sort of jobs are going to be available.
Speaker 1:
It's like a prerequisite before you get to heaven.
Speaker 2:
Well, no, I'm just kind of curious, like what sort of jobs are in heaven anyways? Can I work at a bakery I like? Is there I?
Speaker 1:
mean like I'll make bread. So here's the good news. We know from glorify bodies you can't eat, because in John, chapter 21, whatever, uh, Jesus comes to the disciples on the shore, he eats food in his glorified body. So I guess you could eat it. I don't know if there's actually any taste buds going on anymore or if they've been glorified or if they're super taste buds and everything tastes great. I don't know how it works.
Speaker 2:
All I know is that if you're saying we don't have taste buds in heaven, that's where you're losing me, because you're high. What is heaven if we can't eat good food? Like what is heaven?
Speaker 1:
Well, I don't even know if you're going to have sex in heaven, like that makes sense.
Speaker 2:
Oh well, I mean, I guess that's true, because we're not married in heaven, Like no one's married in heaven.
Speaker 1:
Right, I mean because like which wife would you be? Yeah, and that's where Jesus said remember. Because like what if you had multiple wives, or whatever?
Speaker 2:
Well, because I know that we're, we like Ron and I, aren't going to stay married in heaven because everyone, brother, sister like we're. But but like food we gotta, we gotta eat Like we don't need to eat?
Speaker 1:
Well, not if you have a glorified body that doesn't ever decay.
Speaker 2:
But we can't ever like like.
Speaker 1:
Is heaven sounding more and more depressing to you?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you're making it suck Like.
Speaker 1:
I don't know. Listen, I think you. Why are?
Speaker 2:
you like downgrading?
Speaker 1:
heaven.
Speaker 2:
I'm not downgrading, I'm just trying to bring the truth to the Like now, all of a sudden, I'm told that we're not going to be able to eat food and I have to have a job in heaven.
Speaker 1:
Like possibly could eat food. Jesus, ate food in a glorified body.
Speaker 2:
You just won't need to eat food. We won't have taste buds and we'll have that job.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to heaven you might have. You'll have glorified taste buds, Maybe you'd taste everything perfectly as it was designed and you'll have perfect food, which makes it really probably way better, and you'll have infinite time to enjoy them.
Speaker 2:
You know ever been in like a coffee shop and you'll never it's. It's like calorie free food.
Speaker 1:
Well, it kind of goes back to manna. Okay, you remember manna. Yeah, remember they, nobody could eat too much and nobody could eat too little.
Speaker 2:
And if you gathered enough for the next day, then it was like it would mold Maggots.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, gross, all right, this, this podcast did not turn out the way.
Speaker 2:
Well, you probably shouldn't have told me that I'm going to have a job in heaven. All right, Well hold on.
Speaker 1:
I did have some questions that came up, specifically since I'm Martin Luther King weekend. It is kind of interesting, do you think?
Speaker 2:
here it was.
Speaker 1:
Do you think it was offensive in any way when you impersonated a black pastor during your sermon? You remember when I did that.
Speaker 2:
It was not. I don't think it was.
Speaker 1:
Well, and Joel came up to me and he and while I was doing it, he was giving me the heart thing, you know he does this and he goes, I, he goes, I love you and I was like I love you too, joel. Joel is our elder chairman and he's black and he's black, and he is, he's awesome.
Speaker 2:
What was um Deshaes was Wesley, so it's the black people are defended Like.
Speaker 1:
I think the person probably wasn't from our church or might have been new to a church or whatever, and I can understand like, if you don't know me, um, that might be like, well, it's just kind of it reminds me of like and listen.
Speaker 2:
I don't know who sent this in, so I might be saying something real rude and offensive. I have no idea, but it's like when the white people feel like they need to be offended for the black people on behalf of other people. And it's like they're, they don't, they're not offended. Right, it was fine. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Like well, and I do do a fair. I think I personally. It's not like you were, it's not like you were mocking. Right, it was like a. It was like.
Speaker 2:
I wish you think you thought he's cool Like you.
Speaker 1:
I was like the way they they wanted to be able to preach like that. The fact like, um, I listened to it was weird. It was weird. So many black churches have like sermons on what shall I render. And it came from Psalm oh man, what's all, is it Psalm 116? And it is so awesome. And I listened to sermon after sermon and there wasn't like one. There might be like two white pastors all of YouTube that preached on it and they were like not interesting at all and but every one of the black pastors I watched I was loving it. It was like motivating, yeah, and I think the challenge, I get to a predominantly whiter church is. we don't ask that question. Yeah, and I think that was the sort of the challenge that now is. What challenge me is like why don't we act as a white? Okay, we're, we're about 65, 70% white as a white church, though I I hate to use that terminology it sounds so like I don't know what that is but as a predominantly white church, yeah like I.
Speaker 2:
I wonder why and I haven't ever heard in a my.
Speaker 1:
I've never given that sermon until I preached it then and I hadn't heard any other churches do it. But, like in general in history, whites have been predominantly better off and they're not asking the question what shall I render? And then I thought, oh, at the churches I was watching. These were not like um Churches were like big money churches. This was like Humble churches and they were going all about what shall I render to the Lord for what he and I was like it.
Speaker 2:
Moved me.
Speaker 1:
In fact, I did write a song about it, okay.
Speaker 2:
Okay, fine.
Speaker 1:
A couple verses After I am doing it in the voice like no, no, I'm not gonna do in the voice, but like it's actual song, like like what, after a list of those I got, what shall I render? What shall I give? What shall I offer for this life that I live? And that was gonna go on further, but that's kind of what I came up with. After listening to Several black pastors preach it passionately, I was like so moved anyway, so I'm always thought it'd be really fun to just visit and yeah, it's like just a different taste of culture like taste of culture.
Speaker 2:
It's a flavor that I love and it's fun and I think well, and it's like it's good to appreciate variety and preaching like. And I don't think that if a black pastor saw you, yeah doing that. I don't think he would think oh he would.
Speaker 1:
I think he would give me the same if, like I think he would enjoy it. Like oh, he appreciates the way we preach well, I've been to black churches, and then they impersonate a white guy.
Speaker 2:
Oh, and it's probably hilarious.
Speaker 1:
It's hilarious and if they they'll say what. I've seen it and it was like complimentary. It's like If you like a black pastor was talking about a white people, it's like white people and they kind of like they're talking about. Here's how white people operate. They don't talk about whatever the thing is. What they talk about is what they're saving for their kids for college. And then everyone laughed and I was like huh, that is true.
Speaker 2:
That's like most of it. When black people make fun of white people, it's like pretty much always accurate.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's nail is right on and it's fun. Anyway, I I think that that's where we maybe in a culture that has overcome a lot of Darkness and this might be the dark humor side, or maybe it's the healthy humor side and I think that's the part where we need to do a better job of being able to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves. So seriously. Yes, but at the same time not. You don't want to just sweep under the fact that our country has been really awful in many ways to. People of color, for many, many, many, years, which is why I think it was a big deal. I really kind of honor Martin Luther King for what he's done. Love, love the fact where we are in freedom now. You know what's hard about Martin Luther King. I don't know if you knew this. It's wild. It's like you know how everyone has a scandal. Even Martin Luther King has a scandal but that doesn't.
Speaker 2:
He's human.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, he doesn't take away for the fact from the freedom that he gave to our country like what he stood for.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it was so awesome.
Speaker 1:
But yeah, I mean, the guy had a past, just like with Robbie Zacharias. You know who that is. Yeah, like he, like you can't talk about Robbie Zacharias because he was a dude that had just an awful pass and and it's interesting that I think we're at a different age now but, In that day, mlk, that you didn't have a social media coverage, didn't have people digging up people's Skeletons right so anyway. So I'm super grateful that we do live in our country now that he really paved the way for and gave his life like Sub 40, which is wild to think about.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, cuz racism still exists.
Speaker 1:
I mean its people are still awful, right and both ways like and and then and it within your own race, and there's, I think it's, it's, it's, it's been extrapolated like 800 times.
Speaker 2:
I think we think about race way more than we did before COVID right, it's because social media it's, it's been we fed into the great social media machine of being polarized like I remember being in high school, like middle school, high school, and I'm from a small town where, like it was Like half of us were Texas. Ladies and gentlemen, half of us were why, or maybe it was like a third Y, third black, third Mexican, like it was just like a mix of all of us and I never really feel like I thought about Race, like it was just like we were all there and we were all friends and and it might, and this is the part where you know, as a, as a, when you're the majority culture for the most part.
Speaker 1:
You don't think about race until you're not the majority culture. Yeah, and I think that and so I think that's what's hard, now that we're on a race talk. But I think that's what's hard for people. What to hear, why people say that like I've never even thought about that and like exactly, and you're like what? Yeah and you don't understand how hard it was for me and I'm like, okay, I can see that well, it's like you can't blame us for what we don't know right like we, it's like I. I we want to learn and listen and In love and all the things the biggest piece of this is that, going back to Exist 21 is that God valued every person, and he said even with among slaves. You want to treat them as you treat a brother, and that's wild to think about, right and I and so or said a hired worker, but what that meant is someone that was a Hebrew, like a brother in the sense of a Hebrew, and I think that's where we need to do a better job of Looking at people and I do appreciate. The one thing I do know about you, katie, is you might not give any honor to a CEO or the president or anybody, but you also don't give any disrespect to a Janitor right. Yeah, I think you do a good job of that and I think that's sort of the. The heartbeat is like God doesn't show favoritism. We need to show respect in grace to everyone. But God does say I give honor to the king and anyone who has a position, and and that's you know that might be the part you work on.
Speaker 2:
No, I know, I'm aware.
Speaker 1:
Because it helps move the gospel forward and it shows civil respect, which is fine. Okay, let's see, I think I have one. Do I have another question in here? Oh, here it is in in Moses, in both, if in most, in Exodus, mo. Sorry, if Moses wrote Exodus, why do you write it in third person, that is, a great question and a lot of the biblical writers wrote in third person and I think that's a way a lot of prophets wrote. There's sometimes where prophets are right in first person, sometimes they write in third person and that was a very, very normal way of writing. Yeah, and so you know what? And you have to talk about Moses and the third person. That might seem odd. John does that as well. The Gospel writer John, matthew, mark and John all right in third person. Luke does a first person Writing whatever its first person, but then he goes to third person when he was not talking about himself. I think it's an adequate question. I don't think. I think that sometimes that could make people feel like I don't trust the Bible, but I think it's just a way of writing that you're wanting to convey an impersonal view of this and to be fair for Moses, he did write himself in as the most humble man in all the earth and so you know. You can't really deny that and it would be really weird to write, since I'm the most humble guy that ever walked on the planet, I you know. So he was able to third person that and I think he did have a relation with God and I think he was the most humble guy on the planet, but God had humbled him through some really tough circumstances, so I don't know, is that does that bother you, katie, that the Bible is?
Speaker 2:
No, I don't think that's something I think too hard about yeah, I appreciate like.
Speaker 1:
So Nehemiah is written from a first-person perspective and I really appreciate that I can get into Nehemiah Way telling a story. It is a story, yeah, and it's more like and there it was.
Speaker 2:
And then this guy he's telling his story. Yeah, he's telling his story and Moses is too, but.
Speaker 1:
But I think Moses is telling everyone.
Speaker 2:
It's different writing styles too. I mean, even back then it's like sure, based on Now, I don't know what personalities were like. Well, I remember Moses wasn't writing for himself.
Speaker 1:
He knew that what he was writing was gonna last years beyond himself, right, and so I think you might get lost in all the eyes and that might make it way easier to just write Moses, and so if you know that, that makes, that makes a ton of sense and why you'd write like that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's like when you read anything that Paul wrote, it's like you know, you know it's Paul right, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's actually really helpful, I think. I think if you understood that Moses had a greater view. Now some people don't think that, don't think that Moses wrote Tradition. Up until the 17th century this I don't know if this. I'd love to hear if you care about this. Up until the 17th century, everyone thought Moses wrote Genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers and Deuteronomy. Then after that everyone started debating it, saying like well, no, that's not possible, and blah, blah, blah. Your thought on that?
Speaker 2:
Was Moses born then? Well, remember Genesis. He obviously wasn't born for that, but he wrote Genesis.
Speaker 1:
To me it makes the most sense so how would Moses write Genesis?
Speaker 2:
if he wasn't around for the Genesis stuff Right like how did he know about all this good cuz? There's a lot of stuff oral tradition, so you pass.
Speaker 1:
It was written in a way that it was like a big box of poetry and then he kind of it was for passed down passed, down passed down, and then he eventually wrote it down because logically it would make more sense if Noah wrote Genesis Right or Adam wrote his section and he passed it on, but I mean it was like that they just passed it on orally and then eventually Moses writes it down for the. It's a really the birth of this nation. It's not like they're reading. It's not like you know. In Joseph, the son of Jacob Goes down to Egypt as a slave and goes to prison. It's not like he had a Bible to read to tell him that he could trust God no matter what. All he has a couple promises that were passed down From his parents about, about what God had said and his oral tradition thing right, but eventually Moses comes along and he does write it down, and that he gives us the penitok, or the first five books of the Bible. So there you go. Cool, yeah, you ready to wrap this up?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I Feel like people might be a little hey, you're still watching.
Speaker 1:
Way to go, we love miserable or have.
Speaker 2:
I mean that you're either miserable or you're having fun.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm hoping that you're having fun getting a lot of cultural like Vibes as long, with a lot of history.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, ah, absolutely hey, thanks for watching.
Speaker 1:
If you want to text in and let us talk about anything that you've got to, you got to share 737, 2310, 605. Go to pastor Plect comm. We'd love to hear from you. Make sure you watch, make sure you share, make sure you subscribe. Love to Get everybody influenced by God's word and the power that he has, and so if you want to know more about where we're at, how to do it tomorrow, house to yours. Have an awesome.
