Transcript
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor plec, and with me in studios none other than the champ muhammad ali.
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Welcome back, hey, along with cody sparks from the cody sparks band.
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Welcome back, cody sparks, still here, and then brianna mota from her house I'm so glad you're here.
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She's a mom and she's not at her house right now.
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She's just here, oh right, but she came from her house, right?
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So this past week we talked about Jonah and the classic story of the prophet who was swallowed by the great fish, and I think what makes that story really interesting, at least for me and I don't know if this was interesting for you I'd love to hear your perspective and this is where you can give me a good sermon critique here, like if this encountered the boring factor or if this is like oh good to know, fun fact or like excessive.
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So we talked about all the characters involved outside, really, of Jonah and all the characters that we would actually see in the story.
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How did that hit you when we talked about that?
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I liked it.
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I liked the little animated pictures of them that was my ai creation.
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I had to write in an ai thing.
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I felt very uh ai savvy on my drawings very cool so so do you remember any of the actual people that we talked about?
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All right hosea for sure okay, hosea, and do you remember what kind of what was his role?
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um all I remember is he married a prostitute that's right.
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He married a prostitute and his whole role in life was to reveal to israel and the nations.
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You know this is kind of a big deal.
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Think about a celebrity christian marrying a straight-up whore and then constantly following her around.
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It's wild.
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And so he prophesies against King Jeroboam by name and says hey, you need to repent from the idolatry that you're leading this nation into.
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And the same way I feel about my wife that God called me to marry and I chose her even though I knew she would be just like she is.
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That is how God loves Israel and one day will provide a way for her to be redeemed.
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Okay, so you got Hosea speaking out against King Jeroboam.
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Do you remember anybody else?
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Amos.
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Amos, right.
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So it wasn't famous Amos and the cookies, but rather Amos, who was a shepherd in the Southern kingdom of Judah, who God calls him to go to an evil nation and speak out against.
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It Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it so?
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And he goes to Jeroboam and warns all the parts of Israel that you have restored through military conquest, god's going to take that back from you, and then, also, on top of that, you will one day be exiled.
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And then, of course, you got King Jeroboam, the evil king, who does obey Jonah, and Jonah does tell him to go and expand the territory of Israel.
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By the word of the Lord.
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This isn't just Jonah's opinion.
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God speaks to Jonah and he says go and expand Israel to the boundaries of before, from Lebo Hamath all the way to the Sea of Aqaba, kind of from east to west, across the southern border.
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It is spread out and they kick out those who are not of Israel, which is wild.
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Okay, so you've got King or King.
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You've got Prophet Jonah and Prophet Hosea and Prophet Amos all speaking to Jeroboam and declaring to him different things From Jonah.
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You have this go and do great stuff by the power of God and bring compassion on your people and expand the territory so they're not harassed by foreign invaders.
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And then, at the same time, you've got Hosea and Amos calling out Israel and Jeroboam, specifically about leading Israel to commit adultery against God and all the religious and social evil that was there.
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So it's sort of a wild complex thing.
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So here you have Jonah, who then is called to go to Nineveh, the ultimate enemy, the ultimate bad guy, because the evil has come up before God, has come up before God.
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Now, at that point to me, if you've been like, you've been prophesying about the destruction of the nations, mo, why do you think that Jonah doesn't get that?
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He's like oh, this is just another like every other calling here's another nation that God's going to judge because he gets.
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This is a regular thing for him to go and judge nations.
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Any thoughts on that?
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Yeah, I think in the past, especially when, like Israel, entered the province land, the people who were there before it wasn't hey, you guys repent and you're, for if you repent we're going to come in here and make everything Okay, right, it's go in there and slaughter everyone, and he knows that if they do repent, uh, even then there's still going to be a chance that they're going to harm Israel itself, because Israel is doing a lot of evil, right, and so they could actually be just like the, you know, darius Artaxerxes, whoever like agents of God's wrath against his very own nation.
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Love it, yeah.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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I think also for me, the thing that sort of struck me is that whenever Jonah prophesied, he didn't go to the nations or to the areas that they were going to expand their territory to.
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He did that while in Bethel or the capital of Samaria.
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He did it there and just told the king, like here's what's going to happen.
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I don't know if he had a press conference or what, uh, but then the king would obey that and go.
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He didn't actually have to leave Israel.
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And so to leave Israel, I just remember, um, uh, like when you go and you're an emissary, it's a big deal.
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There is a chance of repentance.
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So when there, when you don't go there, it's just happening and we're documenting that this thing is going to happen and so that God can get the glory for the destruction of the enemy.
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Anyway, I thought that was sort of a fascinating just reality there.
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One of the things that I saw here is that when Jonah goes, when God says to him, go, arise to Nineveh, he goes immediately to Tarshish, which we know is 2,500 miles away from Joppa, which is roughly 3,000 miles away from Tarshish.
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Nineveh.
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Sorry, nineveh, thank you.
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So he's going in the complete opposite direction, as far as the world can go to get away from the presence of god.
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Did anyone else was that strike you as odd?
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Like he's trying to get away from the presence of god?
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a little bit weird, especially if you've been there before or if you're a prophet well, that too yeah, you're a prophet and you know that god is everywhere, so there's nowhere you can go.
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And I'm sure he knew the bible, which was if I go to the heavens, you are there.
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If I go to the depths, you are there.
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There is no escaping the presence of God.
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So why do you guys think that three times he makes it clear he was going to flee the presence of God.
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What do you guys think that was all about from Jonah's perspective?
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I feel like I mean, the whole pinnacle of this thing was at the very end, where you talked about Jesus is a better Jonah, and I feel like to really help contrast that.
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It helps, you know, like the son of God is willing to come down from heaven, and here is a prophet who's supposed to be doing God's work, and even the best of the best still isn't Jesus and he's going to be unwilling.
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I love what you just said, because Jesus is the better Jonah, which he says in Matthew 12, I think it was.
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But remember Garden Gethsemane yeah, like, god gives him the mission to go to the people and sacrifice his life for those who were pagans.
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And Jesus does it, not because he's thrilled about it, because it is his will, not God's will, not his own, and he does it in complete obedience, which I man.
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That's a powerful thought.
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And so Jonah eventually acquiesces because God forces him to, but this is out of.
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Jesus goes to the cross for the joy that was set before him.
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He um endured the cross.
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I thought that that's actually a great point of how this also always points to Jesus as the better Jonah, although Jonah did in, uh, chapter one, uh, offer his body up, uh, but he made the sailors throw him out, which I thought was kind of funny.
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Like if you were like hey, I'm the storms here.
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He's asleep on the boat.
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Hey, why don't you?
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You know he could have just jumped off, yeah, but I think it was because he didn't want anybody to think that he was repenting.
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I think the reason why he was so fast asleep is he was completely at peace with his decision to die and make to make Israel great again or to expand her borders.
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And he got caught up in the religious fervor of making Israel as awesome as possible and did not want to hear God give any sort of leniency.
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He wanted judgment on Nineveh for all their evil, which they deserved, but he couldn't see that Israel also deserved that same punishment, which I thought is kind of wild that he couldn't see that.
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But when it's your own culture you might be blind to all the offenses.
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I think it's like how Jonah could lay there and be peaceful and know like, hey, I know what's coming, I need it, and then Jesus, to be there at any given time, going to the cross, could have just said, no, I'm not doing this and stepped away, but it had to happen.
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So it's just interesting how Jonah could just be like yep, I know this has to happen, here we go.
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I'm not going to do it, but they're going to do it.
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Here and I just found this out from my sermon study for this week, which I may or may not share on Sunday.
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But so whenever he got the word from the Lord, he rose and fled to Tarshish, he went down to Joppa and then in verse two it says he went down to the boat, and then it says he went down to the inner part of the ship and then, when he was swallowed up by the fish, he went down to the depths.
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Isn't that wild.
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So when you avoid God's presence or you, uh, you're going down.
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Yeah, and I think that is.
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I think if someone could just get that stuck in their head you're going down.
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When you run from God's presence, it is not going to go well for you, Even if in the moment it feels like a better decision, like when he got on the boat and he's sleeping soundly, he's like this is it?
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I finally have defeated God and his ability to give compassion, and he in that moment is probably at peace.
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But the storm is coming for you, yeah.
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Did we talk about how long Jonah was in there In?
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the fish, three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, and that's Jesus' three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, which I agree is sort of a wild thought, and I appreciate that.
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Jesus, like you know, when the people of Israel in Jesus' day are saying give us a sign that you're really the Messiah he's like, no sign will be given except the sign of Jonah.
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Yeah.
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Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
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Yeah, just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
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Yeah, Do we talk about Jonah being in there and singing praises while he's in the fish?
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Yeah, so that's this week.
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That's one of my favorite things.
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Yeah, we're going to be talking about that this week, which I'm excited for because you're going to see him come to repentance, which is sort of wild.
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Him come to repentance, which is sort of wild.
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Other thoughts on here that I loved is that the pagans, whenever they were told by Jonah how to be saved, they believed him and they said the way that they could be saved is they needed a substitute to die.
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Isn't that wild?
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Anytime salvation happens at least and I don't know if anyone can think of a time this doesn't happen anytime salvation happens it's because someone is substituted, and that blows my.
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I just think back to Adam and Eve.
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You know they are their sin.
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They needed a covering.
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God kills some animal and covers them with animal skins.
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Even from that point forward, there has been some substitute to make people right with God, and here in particular is Jonah.
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Is a less than Jesus, but he is the substitute for them and then through his, through giving him up and offering up to God, they are saved.
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I thought my point was pagans believe God's word and exchange Jonah's life for theirs, and I think that's what really people are calling, or that's what God calls people to do.
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Yeah, any thoughts on that.
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How did you, when you were listening to this Brie either Sunday or right now?
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How were you able to apply all this?
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Um, yeah because I did ask people are, are?
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Is there something that you have a tendency to run from?
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yeah, that was like a good thing, was it like fill in the blank?
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yeah, I would rather run from god than what's the thing yeah, paul, and I actually had a really good discussion about this yesterday because I asked him, like, what was your thing?
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And for me it took a while to figure it out because I was like, well, if it's like, if someone came to me, it's like presence of or this, I would always choose the presence of God.
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But I'm like, maybe it's something I'm doing unconsciously.
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So it took a lot of reflecting, cause I think it's easy for a lot of Christians to be like, oh well, I'd always choose God, but then their actions say otherwise.
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Right, and maybe it's because we just don't go.
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I am currently, right now, choosing this thing over God, and maybe we just need to say that more often.
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Uh, and that would probably help our be like okay, when you bring God into it, you know, like that's cheating.
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Uh, I think that's where, like, when it comes to like, would you rather be in the presence of God or look at porn?
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Okay, well, you know, of course, I'd rather be in the presence of God.
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Well then, why do you not do that?
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Because I can't.
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You know, like that, I think that's where people go, um, and I think that's a struggle that they're facing.
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Um, what did you say on that?
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Um mainly just comfort financially.
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Comfort financially.
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I think that's a that's a common one for women in general.
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And it just it'll look different, different seasons of life.
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Security.
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That's the ultimate thing Like, and it might be that's just the control, right, I want to know what I can, how, what we're going to need, and I don't even care if it's good or bad.
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Just tell me what I'm supposed to do.
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To kind of, yeah, I'm with you.
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It.
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It eliminates the walking by faith when you have control.
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Yeah, For me I think it's fear of God than confront somebody.
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I hate that, but you know you do it because that's what the Lord calls you to.
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I think it's like fear of man would probably be the right way of putting that.
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What about you, Mo?
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Any thoughts come up, just generally.
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Oh man, if I think about it, the comfort.
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I would rather you know watch a bunch of things and veg out.
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But that's kind of tough too, because I feel like what, what is the presence of God even mean?
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Right, if you can't flee from it, then why does it say that he fled from it?
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And I feel like it's a different kind of presence.
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So the yeah, the actual word is face, and so you might so, and this is where you know presence.
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So you might so, and this is where you know presence.
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We translate presence because that probably makes more sense, but face of God it's like I don't want to face God.
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Yeah, there we go.
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That's the actual, and maybe I should have said that in the sermon.
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And the other thing, too, is like finding the presence of God where you think that it's not.
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You know what I mean.
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Like I've realized over the years, like God's presence is there when I'm worshiping, through changing diapers.
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You know like that's being in the presence of God.
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I'm being what I'm called to do Right, and it's work that has to be done, and I'm doing it for my family, which means that it's for his glory.
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So it's like oh, that's good.
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You know what I mean.
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It's finding the presence where I before wouldn't usually think that that's the presence of God.
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Yeah, yeah.
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What was cool, I think, on this particular Sunday is we had three people.
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When I asked the question will you receive the great exchange for Jesus life?
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For years, Three people texted in Jesus, which is that's awesome.
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So, and we had met with them up all three of them afterwards and it was really awesome.
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So I'm looking forward to them connecting and growing in their faith.
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So I think that's the big thing for me is the great exchange aspect with this as well.
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Is so big is like I think, when it comes to most people, we think of terms of repentance, looking like rowing as hard as we can to try and get back with God.
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And when you try and row that hard cause, as a sailors were rowing like crazy, it was only until they just kind of acquiesced to the God's word and gave up Jonah that they were saved and, um, I thought that was powerful, I thought that was a wild thought.
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Um, I don't know if that's what resonated with people, that thought, or if just God was just like moving in their hearts.
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You know that's what resonated with people, that thought, or if just God was just like moving in their hearts.
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You know, sometimes you preach a sermon and they come and tell you like, and you really spoke to me when you said this, and I didn't say any of that at all.
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So who knows, you know what, what, what moves on somebody's heart?
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The Holy spirit just does what he does.
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Um.
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I do want to say I think it was really powerful.
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You mentioned something about um.
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Like no one else can calm your storm, like you can't calm someone else's storm, they have to be the one to run back right, you can't repent for somebody else exactly, and if your storm isn't calming, then you need to take a look on your life and what you're doing, and that doesn't always mean like.
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That doesn't always mean that you're in sin.
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Remember paul when he shipwrecked?
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Yep, uh, like clearly that was God's will.
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But a lot of times, a lot of times, if you're sick, if your things are not going well, it might be God's discipline, or it could just be like God's.
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It's tough to tell if whether it's God's discipline or God's training ground, because it looks really similar and it's kind of if your heart has a pure conscience.
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I think I was listening to like a John MacArthur book about something that he was doing and people were like, see, god's judging you and he's like no, god's preparing me.
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So it's tough to know what reality looks like based on, like your decision that you made means this is a bad thing.
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This is a bad thing, I think, for me.
00:18:01.162 --> 00:18:16.567
Uh, one of those times was when, you know, the elders and us decided to we, um, we leased this space we're in now, and next door was the um, the children's ministry and all of our offices, and we built all the offices, we built out the children's space and then a month later, we got a letter saying you need to tear it all down or not.
00:18:16.567 --> 00:18:17.909
We they were going to tear it all down.
00:18:17.909 --> 00:18:30.561
We spent like a hundred thousand dollars on it and I was like, and people left the church over that Like, how got, how could you guys miss God so much?
00:18:30.561 --> 00:18:42.805
And then was that 2018, uh, three years later, we were gifted land because that, because of that happening, and then now, uh, you know, three years after that, we're now about to, you know, start building.
00:18:42.805 --> 00:18:44.272
So it's wild how that can all happen and you don't know in the moment.
00:18:44.292 --> 00:18:58.009
And sometimes it can feel like, oh, was it on things that are not moral, right, where it's like it may feel like, um, man, was this God punished me for a a bad, not thought through decision, or we prayed wrong or didn't hear from God, right?
00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:01.661
So, yeah, so, anyway, I think that's.
00:19:01.661 --> 00:19:06.609
And then other times, god can bless you in spite of you, and I think that's what I loved about what Jonah was doing.
00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:08.567
He was blessing the nation of Israel.
00:19:08.567 --> 00:19:11.105
Then they did not deserve it.
00:19:11.105 --> 00:19:22.365
I mean, like they, they were getting, their borders were expanding, they were very wealthy at the time and it wasn't because of their righteousness or holiness.
00:19:22.365 --> 00:19:25.989
It was because God just wanted to bless them, and isn't.
00:19:25.989 --> 00:19:32.134
His kindness is meant to lead us to repentance and in this case, it just further hardened their hearts and they couldn't see it.
00:19:32.134 --> 00:19:34.336
But that's God, that's the nature of God.
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:42.685
One of the man I heard a preacher recently say um, like you know what grace is?
00:19:42.685 --> 00:19:48.028
Grace is like when you have a next door neighbor and when you turn your, when your music's on too loud, they're yelling at you and say, hey, turn it down.
00:19:48.028 --> 00:19:52.330
Uh, but whenever their music's loud they're like whatever you know, like in your face.
00:19:52.330 --> 00:19:58.022
Or uh, if you have like a million cars parked outside your house, uh, and they come and rail at you for that.
00:19:58.022 --> 00:20:03.402
But if you have like, one day somebody stops by and they accidentally park in their space or park the wrong way in the street, they, they call the police.
00:20:03.402 --> 00:20:06.750
Like that's grace when you love them anyway.
00:20:07.290 --> 00:20:24.126
And I think what sometimes people think grace is is like, um, there's a community group leader that's been working really hard and they didn't know that they, you, were going to go and buy them a trip to, to, I don't know, tahiti or something, but you bless them with it and they didn't know what's happening.
00:20:24.126 --> 00:20:25.486
But man, they sure deserved it.
00:20:25.486 --> 00:20:26.865
They've been working crazy hard.
00:20:26.865 --> 00:20:31.632
So I think sometimes we can kind of receive something and go like I kind of earned that.
00:20:31.632 --> 00:20:45.045
But here Jonah gets God's grace, even though he ends up in the belly of a fish, in the same way that Israel was getting God's grace for him expanding their territory, not destroying, in the same way that God wanted to bless and give grace to Nineveh.
00:20:45.045 --> 00:20:45.606
Yeah, that's good.
00:20:45.606 --> 00:20:50.226
Okay, any other thoughts from Jonah, chapter one from you guys?
00:20:52.069 --> 00:20:53.051
Not on that one, that's good.
00:20:53.712 --> 00:20:54.942
Yeah, I like that.
00:20:54.942 --> 00:21:00.412
You know, sometimes it's like did that really happen?
00:21:00.412 --> 00:21:05.605
Like yeah, like really in like the like a belly of a fish dude and like he spits them out.
00:21:05.605 --> 00:21:05.965
How did?
00:21:05.986 --> 00:21:13.967
he survive Like and I feel like sometimes it pushes certain Christian, like scholars, even to be like oh, that was like a parable.
00:21:13.967 --> 00:21:16.423
Yeah, like that was like a story.
00:21:16.423 --> 00:21:17.904
You know, jesus told parables.
00:21:17.904 --> 00:21:28.711
Um, then, when you have the son of God using that story to justify his own resurrection, to me it's like, yeah, if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:38.748
I mean, the thing that cracks me up is like we get worried about Jonah and the fish when we should be worried about Jesus being dead, and then not being dead.
00:21:39.080 --> 00:21:41.744
It's like if you can believe that then can't you believe just about anything.
00:21:41.766 --> 00:21:42.166
That's right.
00:21:42.166 --> 00:21:42.489
That's right.
00:21:42.489 --> 00:21:44.135
So, yeah, I get it.
