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257: Pastor Plek and Catie Sas are joined by Devan Bice and Pablo Mota on this episode of the podcast to debate a very hot topic in Christian Culture: should Christians celebrate halloween? Listen in to hear more about these very different answers to this question.
Faith, Culture, and everything in between.
Questions:
Should Christians celebrate Halloween?
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Speaker 1:
And welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I'm so glad all of you are joining us as we are live here in Austin, texas, on a special Halloween edition of pastor plex podcast, and with me in the studio is none other than the infamous Mrs Katie sass. How are you, katie?
Speaker 2:
I'm your biggest fan doing great.
Speaker 1:
Katie does have a lot of followers and if you want to let Katie, how can people follow you on Instagram?
Speaker 2:
Why would you say something weird like that?
Speaker 1:
Well, because, it's true, a lot, of, a lot of. I think it's at Mrs Katie sass right.
Speaker 2:
No, it's just Katie with three ease sass.
Speaker 1:
Katie with three ease sass All right, awesome. And then also join us Is this your first time on the show. This is long time listener and first time appearance for Mrs Devin buys, really excited to have you on the show. You are a missionary resident here at Wells branch Community Church and, as we all know, a beloved friend of Miss Adrian Plecampol, which is pretty fun and that's pretty great, all right. So then, also with us in the studio is senior Pablo, a motah, who is a future church planner and so, or at least, a future pastor.
Speaker 4:
Oh, yeah, yeah, don't try to speak that into it. Yeah, sorry, Sorry, future pastor, is that fair? Future pastor yeah, future.
Speaker 1:
Church planning is super hard. Okay, we'll get to that later, but we are super excited, as you are one in training for the ministry, and super excited about what you have to say, and the topic today is Halloween, all right, yeah, I know. And since it is, it is October 31st we want to kind of talk about the implications of Christians. And should Christians the big question, should Christians celebrate Halloween? And I'll start with senior Pablo over there, of course Break it down.
Speaker 4:
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I think it's important that we first define what does celebrating mean? All right, fair enough. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:
Halloween came from. Can anyone give us some background here? Yeah, was that Devon? You want to tell you the background, girl, she's done her research. Okay, talk to us about what you know, all right, it's the Celtics. Yeah, okay, back in Ireland.
Speaker 3:
And they wanted to. They believe that it was the day where the veil was so thin between the spirit world and the real world, and so this was a day all Hallows Eve that they would all come out and ask their ancestors or demons to give them power, give them wisdom, give them strength. And then, on November 1st, they celebrated all their new wisdom and strength from the demons.
Speaker 1:
So I have a different version.
Speaker 3:
Okay, I wasn't there During the eighth century.
Speaker 1:
Pope Gregory III named November 1 All Saints Day to honor the Catholic saints. And so again, that's the day of like, or back in the day when we didn't have like Protestantism, so that's just all you had. So All Saints Day, so everyone's like sweet, we're going to honor the saints. And then, about 200 years later, all Souls Day was added on November 2 to pray for the dead. Why would you be praying for the dead To knock off some years of their purgatory? We got to help out the dead people, okay, and then people would leave food and they'd leave other items out for dead relatives. They'd leave the evil spirits and this is where Halloween comes in would try and hinder the prayers of the dead. So in 1800s, immigrants from Scotland and Ireland arrived in the United States with their Halloween traditions, and then immigrants from other countries also added in their Halloween traditions, such as German witchcraft, lore, haitian African Native Voodoo beliefs about fire, black cats, ghosts, witchcraft, all of. So it kind of just became a syncretism of all of. It's kind of like the pantheon of Egypt, if you will. So we just kind of added in different things for fun, because, why not, who's going to say it's not true, because it's all made up anyway.
Speaker 3:
Question where in your story, where does the word Halloween come from?
Speaker 1:
Because, remember, all Hallows Eve is.
Speaker 3:
Hallow.
Speaker 1:
Because the first all saints' days are the hallowed ones. The hallowed ones, that's the holy day, and then so the day before be All Hallows Eve. So they're going to hinder the prayers of the saints by bringing out all of the ghouls and goblins and the what-nots they're going to stop your prayers? Yeah, nothing good, Nothing good. Okay, so that's the background. Now ready, let's take to our modern day Halloween. Pablo, how do you feel about Halloween?
Speaker 4:
Uh, I mean, I don't know Listen there's no judgment here.
Speaker 1:
This is like we are brothers and sisters in Christ. Yeah, I'm not scared of being judged. Listen, there's no judgment.
Speaker 4:
I just from a worldly perspective, it's nothing but dark stuff. Okay, right, you know, people dress as witches, people dress as the devil, and there's people that do it for fun, whatever, but generally the way it's advertised, it's just all darkness, okay, and so I think that's a big part of why I don't necessarily agree with celebrating Halloween.
Speaker 1:
All right, so talk to me then.
Speaker 2:
Is this as a new Christian Like that you, Uh?
Speaker 1:
how long have you been a Christian? Did you celebrate Halloween as a kid? Like yeah, a couple times so like, because it was like. The reason why you didn't do the rest of the time was what? Were you in Brazil then, or well?
Speaker 4:
I will. In Brazil we didn't really talk about Halloween, but I celebrated Halloween here, probably like from like middle school to like I Say like probably like senior year, maybe even beyond that. But again, I was raised a Christian but wasn't really a Christian and so I never really thought too deeply into it. In fact, we were friends with someone who was like a witch and Halloween was her favorite day of the year. Yep and I think that was a day that I was like, maybe, like I shouldn't be celebrating the day.
Speaker 2:
That is this, which is favorite day you know, I mean yeah, this, like the way you feel about Halloween, isn't necessarily because you became a Christian, it's just like an, an opinion, an opinion that you that's evolved.
Speaker 4:
Well, it started with so that girl who was a witch saying that. And then, the further I got into my faith, the more I felt convicted of like why am I celebrating something that's evil, like I'm out on? You know the scripture. But there's scripture that says like refrain from all evil things, sure, and it. And there's like an emphasis on all. So it's not like some or like a few, it's all. So to me, like, if there's a day that's dedicated to celebrating evil, why am I gonna partake in it?
Speaker 1:
Okay, so, okay. So Devin your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:
Okay, yeah, I have a verse for you too. Oh, wow, but I first I do want to explain a little bit my background as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, hit it.
Speaker 3:
I'm a I was a lover of Halloween. My husband and I met in a haunted house, oh, and then, when we got married, we prayed to have a baby on Halloween and we were almost successful October 26, because of how much we love Halloween and and October and the. So I come from a background where it was my day, it was my favorite holiday. So it was hard for me to get to the place where I am now, and it was not because I wanted to be in the place when I am now. So, okay, the verse I wanted to share with you that you were talking about. There's a lot of them, actually, but in Deuteronomy 14 it says 14, 1 and 2 you are the children of the Lord, your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, for you are a people holy to the Lord, your God. Out Of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be his treasured possession. There's a lot in there to unpack. We don't have to go through the whole thing, but it's just the fact that we are to be set apart and that we are created to be holy. So why celebrate something that is Obviously Satanic. Like all witches talk about it. This is their day, this is their holiday, so why should we join in on it?
Speaker 1:
Okay, wow.
Speaker 2:
That's a lot, that's a lot right there, miss K sass thoughts on that. I mean, I don't know that I have any big opinions about Halloween. I know, that's very surprising. Yeah, that wow what we need you to show.
Speaker 1:
Wow. No, I really like is this like you're now turning over new leaf or something? What's going on here?
Speaker 3:
Did we already convince you?
Speaker 2:
Halloween is like Valentine's Day to me. It's just like it's a cutesy holiday that like you can celebrate or you can make fun of or you can like yeah, I it's. It's like literally the. The significance of Halloween is the same significance as I see of Giving someone a Valentine's card on Halloween like you can. We're not really into dressing up like before. I was a Christian. It was just another day to like Be half-naked and call it a costume, and now, as a mom, I'm like, gosh, this is so much work. I have to like think of a Halloween costume that my kids gonna wear. Am I gonna make it or am I gonna just buy it? But then they're expensive. It. Are we gonna dress up or we're gonna do a family costume? Like what are we gonna do? Those are the thoughts that I have about Halloween.
Speaker 1:
So, in other words, you're not thinking evil at all.
Speaker 2:
No, no, I'm not thinking evil. I'm just thinking like do I want my kid to have candy? Like what kind of candy do I want to have? Like the scariest things that I think about Halloween, or how much sugar is in the chocolate bar that she's about to?
Speaker 1:
eat. Okay, so so is she. Is she heading towards a cliff of doom, devon.
Speaker 3:
I definitely don't believe that, because she's one of my closest friends.
Speaker 1:
It seems like she's going right off the cliff like no, but I Talked about this at dinner, Okay and we would you say it was.
Speaker 2:
I just said. If you have a conviction about Halloween, then you should honor that and that is like that's a beautiful thing that you want to honor God, okay let's talk about the fear, though, because we talked about this at dinner.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, all right about. You're like I'm not gonna be scared of the witches kind of thing, right in the current right, right, yeah. And so I went home because I agreed with you, right, I was like, yeah, I'm not scared of them, I'm not scared of the witches.
Speaker 2:
I'm scared bring it witches.
Speaker 3:
Well, don't, but don't really. But then I thought when I got home I was like no, I am scared of them, in the sense that I am also scared of spiders. Like they are to be. They are terrifying, yeah, in a way that I know they are bad, and even though I have the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:
Spiders, are you scared up?
Speaker 3:
Oh my gosh, every single one of them. The other day, zach was in home and I grabbed. The only thing I could as a weapon is a tortilla, and I killed it.
Speaker 1:
Now, so proud of myself, I'm scared you ever came by the blood of the tortilla and the power of your testimony. But here's the thing.
Speaker 3:
I've seen demons and when I I've seen them twice.
Speaker 1:
Okay, when were you high?
Speaker 3:
No, actually, but one is a really cool story about when, zach, just you asked her if she was high.
Speaker 1:
Well.
Speaker 3:
I mean, I didn't smoke before, but but we were married and he just at small group or at Lisa's small group, and he was giving the glory to God about not looking at porn. And then we went home that night and then I woke up to a demon on top of me and Then Zach just got in bed and I was shaking him, like do you see this? And he's like what are you talking about? I was like I couldn't breathe, I couldn't speak, I couldn't even say the name of Jesus. Honestly, I wish I could, but that's all. Scared I was. And then Zach prayed over me and rebuked the evil spirit and it fled. So I'm just Speaking about Zach's fear. That sure, I know that I have more power than Satan because I have Jesus in me, but it is terrifying and I don't really want to involve myself in it because it wasn't fun.
Speaker 1:
So um, for those of us who have small children which I think you do, as I know you do how, where? Because this is the part I'm kind of in the Katie sass camp over here, like we don't talk really about. I mean, we had a conversation at breakfast, at the breakfast table this morning I or was it last night might have been, it all runs together. Or sometimes, yeah, last night it was that last night dinner. It's like hey guys, do we celebrate Halloween? And they go. My oldest son goes no, and then the other three go yes and I go. All right, let me clarify for you kind of where we are On that. And I said we don't celebrate Halloween because there's nothing to celebrate and although it is kind of it is very fun to go get candy from our neighbors to meet them. And in fact, for us I said we're going to bless our neighbors and love them with the gospel, and Someone we've been trying to get to come to our church for a long time. Hopefully she'll listen to this. We've been and we're gonna spend time with her and her family and we'll go trick-or-treating and knocking all the doors and, well, I'll have a gospel proclamation at some point and I'm really excited about that. So the this is where you got to really break down what is the evil thing and this is why I love Romans 14, and this is the biggest part of Romans 14 to your own master, someone stands or falls, and so this goes to personal conviction. So in Romans 14, paul's writing about eating with a clean conscience and a clean heart. But if you can't, then don't. And so if Celebrating or if you feel like you are celebrating Halloween by trick-or-treating because if there was every day that your kids Went to your next door neighbor and asked for candy, you there wouldn't be anything morally right or wrong about that action. You would be like that's any other day. In fact, if you know, we go to our next door neighbor. They give us money. It's glorious. They get like a dollar or like five dollars of quarters or something to the first person. So we know that our next door neighbor Thank you, tony. By the way, he always gives our boys like five dollars worth of quarters and a baggie and that's like his house, because he and his thing is. He was a pastor and this thing he just want to. You know, darken everyone's hearts with sugar. So he gives money, at least for the first ones, I think the later ones they get sugar because they went first and so they don't get the blessing anyway. So we do that and it's, it's wonderful, and I get to meet all my neighbors, all the people that I Went to my little, my, my four-year-olds preschool. I saw all of them and they had like a big fan. It was called fantasy day or whatever, but it's, you know, halloween and nobody was dressed up as ghouls or goblins. I would never let my kids dress up as anything that had to marking of death, so anything with skulls and crossbones, because I don't want any and now, granted, that's talking about like tattooing yourself, but I just don't want to wear anything with the markings of death and that. And that's just a personal conviction. If you got skull and crossbones and stuff and you feel like that's good for you, I don't, I don't think like you have to go get that tattoo removed. I'm not, I'm not going that far. But what I am saying is that I don't want to associate myself with death. However, I don't want to pull myself out of the culture, because in first Corinthians, five and six, you know, paul says don't associate with any sexually immoral, any of the swindlers, idolaters. But I'm not saying people, that of the world, I'm saying those who call themselves, you know, christians or they're a member of the local church. Don't associate with those people who are doing those things as idolaters and swindlers and and going the darkness. So that's where I'd say it like if we had like a special service here when we, you know, called out to the dead on Halloween, that would be celebrating Halloween. But because we're interacting with our neighbors, were being intentional about people of I always like, think of, is like, if this is, if this is like the evil day, then we're taking, you know, water pistols out and we're going Because we have the power of the Holy Spirit with us and the Lord is with us, and so everything that we do, we do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus. So if I can't do something in the name of Lord Jesus, I shouldn't do it. And then first Corinthians nine says you know, since I'm free From all, I can make myself a slave doll in order to gain even more people to the Jews. I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. So if I was hanging out with like somebody that was like totally against Halloween because those evil, you know, but there weren't Christian or whatever, I'd be like, yeah, that's so bad. I can be like, you know, although myself I'm not under the law, I can totally, when I'm not around those people, enjoy a trick-or-treating night or, you know, put a spider web on my house. So I think all those things are totally fine. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it does, but at what point do you say like I'm gonna act like this person, I'm gonna start cussing around this person, because this is what Zach has had the struggle with? Yeah, I don't think you would be like I don't want them to feel like I'm a prude, so I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna kind of get down to where they're at so that they feel comfortable around me. At what point?
Speaker 1:
I guess what I'm saying is I, if I'm around. So if I'm around, people that are of the world, and then they go, hey, we're gonna go participate in this quick little you know Seance, I think, oh, I don't, that's not for me. I believe that that would be sin. That's you know, you're talking to the dead, that's you, that's a cultic. As a follower of Jesus, I wouldn't do that. But if they're like, hey, I'm gonna go this next door, this house, that with the you know creepy whatever, and get candy, I'm like, all right, cool, let's go.
Speaker 3:
Do you experience? Okay, I'm gonna say a story because we just went to a trunk retreat at a church.
Speaker 1:
With me.
Speaker 3:
Yes, because I love Halloween, and so I keep trying to make excuses.
Speaker 1:
But you and you dressed up as Belle. I did, and you look and your husband was the beast with the same outfit he's wearing now and your daughters always wear. I think they wear the same thing they wear to church, which is great.
Speaker 3:
They do. They're hoeing off is their everyday outfit.
Speaker 1:
Oh man so you guys celebrate Halloween every day.
Speaker 3:
Like well, but here's my thing is I thought it's not October 31st, it's at a church, so I thought these things maybe we can get by with it and not to be apart of the people.
Speaker 1:
But lo and behold, I appreciate your, your.
Speaker 3:
Because of how much I love it. But we went and my girls were getting stickers or tattoos of witches and I'm like this is not cute. And then my Emory, who's five she was like mom, it's a witch and she threw it away and I was so proud of her Good girl. But Emory, I mean Amara, who's three. This is where I felt really guilty as a mom. She's walking around and then she sees this boy wearing a scream outfit. We all know that's so scary for a little kid. And this seven year old boy what a little punk. He sees my three year old staring at him and he he presses slowly the button under his mask. In this blood drips down and then her jaw just drops and she's like shaking and still and I'm like, amara, let's just go, let's just go move. And she couldn't move cause she was terrified what a punk, right. So then I thought we're not safe, like we came to a church thinking okay everybody's gonna be with you.
Speaker 2:
No, it was our church Cause you're passionate about the mission field. Yeah, do you feel like you're missing an opportunity on Halloween to connect with those around you?
Speaker 1:
Cause you're really good at it that might not know Jesus?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, not at all, cause my experience is we go almost door knocking every night that we don't have somebody over in a house, so Halloween's like you're just taking the day off, pretty much. Yeah, it's our holiday, it's our Christmas. Yeah, which is like no, that was not an accusatory statement. That was everyone needs the day off sometimes it's just like I don't see. I feel like I'd be blending in, I'd be doing what everybody else is doing. I'm not being set apart from the culture If I'm putting on costumes and I'm going out on October 31st and I don't see a lot of evangelizing opportunities either, because people are like here's your candy and then the kids want to run off to the next door, yeah, so everybody's coming and going.
Speaker 1:
So, but what if I think the point, what we're doing is a family, we're going with another and we do this every it's we love the Mormons.
Speaker 3:
They are our Halloween partners. Okay, you just invite them over for dinner.
Speaker 1:
Sure, we do that too, but like this is an already a thing that is happening, it's an easy way to participate alongside them and I have spiritual conversations for the entire walk. It was actually the Mormon Bishop we shared. I was sharing Christ with him for, like it was like two, three years ago. I was so fun. I was like the entire time. I was just Jesus the whole way through and he kind of agreed with me way too much, so it was really frustrating.
Speaker 4:
But.
Speaker 1:
But but this time we're going with a family that is is not involved in church and is not, and has come as visit a couple of times, but I'm really excited about getting them involved with our church and us participating alongside them. And we're not doing eat like we're not, we're not talking to the dead, which is bad. Do not pray the dead, Deuteronomy 1811,. Do not pray or inquire of the dead. That is sin. All right, so, but what? We're not? Well, so we're not taking part in that, but we are taking part in a some sort of tradition experience and I want to co-opt it, I want to steal it. You know, people steal Christianity, or Christmas and Easter, all the time.
Speaker 3:
They've taken Christmas and made it about.
Speaker 1:
In fact, I guess I go Jet. What's Christmas about Family? I'm like no, it's Jesus.
Speaker 3:
I mean, that's a better answer than Santa.
Speaker 1:
Jesus is the reason for the season and he's like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that too. And I'm like we are. We're going to do a better job of co-opting Halloween, because it's the great day to meet your neighbors, to share Jesus with them. And what if we had that mindset as Christians, that we went out there as an army to push back against the darkness and bring the gospel of Jesus right to our next door neighbors? And we went trick or treating with them the whole time, praying for God to give us a word to speak into their life, because, whatever they're going through, I might have a word for them. That's what I'm saying. Like it's an already an opportunity that's already out there. So why don't we go and take it, co-opt it, make it ours and then have all the Satan people always be angry at you. You stole, you made Halloween just about meeting your neighbors. I'm like yes, and then they can go. Oh, I'm going to steal your stinkin' Christmas and I'll make it all about presents. And I'll steal your Easter. Make about the Easter money. Well, if they're out there co-opting our days, I'm going to co-opt theirs.
Speaker 3:
Okay, here's, I see it and I love it and I'm here for it. If we can still Halloween for the church, for God, I'm.
Speaker 1:
I'll be your biggest fan. I need you to come. We need to be on like in tandem. Let's go.
Speaker 3:
Can we talk about something else though? Cause here's the biggest problem. The very biggest that I have with Halloween is I've gone on YouTube, on TikTok, on Instagram go to whatever platform you like and put in X Witches, halloween, sure, and then you will see how much these people love Halloween and what they do, and how this is their day that they this is when the most Satanic rituals happen, cause you gotta think.
Speaker 2:
This is like a Christmas, but can't we just ignore them, but it's like, why would?
Speaker 3:
I want to like fan the flame of being a participant and something that they love. They love. They say it when the kids go out. We set curses. Oh, I have to share this one story. This witch was setting curses on all the kids that were trick or treating. There was one kid that the witch couldn't curse. So the witch started following the kid. It was like I'm going to curse this dang kid. She kept got like she couldn't speak. Her throat was caught and she was like that's how I'm going to follow this kid to her house. So the witch followed the kid to the house, started trying to curse the house and she could never do it. It made her mad. So she pursued the house and then she eventually, long story short, she found God. She gave her life to God. She went to the house. She door knocked, wanted to figure out why she could incur this house. They were Christians. So yes, I know that, I know that you're gonna say the ball is in your court, but the mom prays over her child. What about the quote unquote?
Speaker 1:
Christians who aren't fully there yet and are praying for their children and then a curse gets all of that. And praying over their children I mean like you should know there's a spiritual bound. If you don't put the armor on every day, it's not, you know, not anyone else. Fall up with your own when you get the bullet to go through your chest. That would come. Complacency when we were in Iraq was the biggest enemy. All right, so the question man, I love that story. Remember we had this in church I don't know if you guys were here. I was preaching and a woman stands up in the very back row and she went to speak out against me Every time she opened her mouth she went silent and then, when she came up, cause they were like.
Speaker 3:
They were like she was about to yell at me and she was like you were standing there, and then she, every time I went to talk to her Then she came up to talk to me and every time she tried to say a word to me she goes Jesus is Lord.
Speaker 1:
I know Jesus is Lord. It was wild. I was like, oh, I was like would you like? I was like I didn't have any context for what was going on. I just started stand up at one point and I was like okay, that was weird. She had a moment that she was like how do you think of the story in?
Speaker 2:
is it dude around me about Balaam?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Balaam, he's like supposed to be cursing the. Right the numbers yes, so the Balaam is one of those old ones.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and so Balaam is and he has a donkey and he's about to go curse for the Moabites. He's going to curse the Israelites and he isn't able to.
Speaker 2:
He only blesses them and that's exactly everything that comes out of his mouth is his blessing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and so, and then he had to. The only way he could get them to fall was get the or I think it was Midian, get the Midian women to go and seduce the Israelite men, and then the God's God cursed them for him because they were like mm. Anyway. So but the thing I wanted to kind of point out was like there was power there, and I am a mobile worship center. I think that's one of the things that we've talked about. This isn't the worship center we are all. When we all gathered together, it's a worship center. But because we're all filled with, every one of us is full of mobile worship centers, which is why when people walk in here, I had a Israeli friend when he came in to do the podcast. He said I walked in, I felt something.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and he goes, I've never, I don't he's like I don't do Well because Jews aren't allowed to be in other churches, right.
Speaker 1:
He was like he said, but he's an atheist. He goes, I'm an atheist, so I don't you know. And then when I walked in I go oh it was, it was wild.
Speaker 3:
Holy spirit powerful. It was wild.
Speaker 1:
And you know, I've had people in here and they just start weeping, yeah, anyway. So what I'm saying is like the power of the gospel and the Holy spirit, when you are walking with him, should make you go. Let's get on the offense, cause what do we have? What are we afraid of, right? Are we afraid of the darkness? And, to your point, like whenever Zach said the name of Jesus, darkness fled. And I think there's real power there and I don't, and I know we're not underestimating the darkness, but I feel like what we can do is make people so afraid that we give a platform to Satan that we're afraid of him. Cody, are you able to talk to us from back in there, cody, who is our worship leader? He grew up as a pastor's kid, and so I would just love, if you're able. If you're not able, to talk, just it's fine, you come take my mic yeah but what, cody? Yeah, you can come take Devin's mic for a sec. So so Cody Was a kid, that wasn't, you know, teenage mutant Ninja Turtles were the devil. You know they had that a dirt devil and you'd you'd have to tape over the word devil and make it the dirt angel. And so they listen hey, they were consistent All right, like I think you kind of laugh at that, but you're like oh, okay, this home is gonna be protected by the gospel and we're gonna keep out the evil, as opposed to it's like when. Okay, I don't know if this I'm not do a football analogy and this may not make sense to you. Well whenever a defense goes, prevent defense in the NFL. I want to die because that means they're gonna allow the other team to score and they're just making sure they don't get Any big ones. And I'm like what? The whole time you were playing the game, your entire game was working because you were attacking the offense. And I think what happens when we start playing defense? We shut our doors, we turn out the lights and we just hope everyone goes away. I think that that is like it's like you you give them the day to win. In fact, here's a fun post. Someone posted this on social media. It's a. It's a piece of paper on their front door. So the tension Satanic, socialist. This is a home of a patriotic Christian family. We work hard and pay taxes. We do not celebrate Satan's Day. We do not give away free candy to lazy, entitled freeloaders. No handouts, welcome to America. If you want candy, get a job.
Speaker 3:
And find Jesus. Can I get a copy of that?
Speaker 2:
So basic joking I hate, that I hate that so much. How does that win anyone over for Jesus? That's, that's that's. We love you.
Speaker 1:
We want you to know Jesus we got a circle the wagons, the enemies out there, the good people are in here and we got to make sure that everybody knows that they're evil. And I think that's the problem, because our battle isn't against flesh and blood but against the spiritual forces of darkness. And this present age and so if we have the power of the Holy Spirit everywhere we go, as a most mobile worship center, we're taking the church into the dark.
Speaker 3:
But do you feel bad for the people who don't have Jesus in their heart?
Speaker 4:
I know you go, you go. I'm gathering a whole lot, right, so Well. So I really like your analogy about football. Yeah, the only thing about it is that the defense can't send the Blitz if they don't have their, if they don't have their bases covered, like if they can't cover a five-yard hitch double metaphor there with baseball and football. Go on, okay, whatever if they can't cover a five-yard hitch route right and they shouldn't be blitzing, because that's immediately what the office is gonna go. Yes, pablo, so the point there being and I don't mean to like attack or call you out, but you're a passer right, you are a professional Christian.
Speaker 1:
Those words came out of your mouth if you get paid to be good, then you're a professional anyways but you're.
Speaker 4:
You said your own kid was like. You know, jesus or Christmas was about family and like and I get, and I completely agree with your point of like, if they're gonna take Christmas, we should take Halloween. But I think that we all and and to the people listening if you consider yourself a Christian, you should have your bases covered and and not in the sense of like, okay, if I'm gonna celebrate Christmas, then this is what it's about. If I'm a severe Halloween, this what it's about. But in terms of everything, like, if you're a Christian, then really be a Christian. Then Pray over your kids, pray over your family, pray for yourself to be protected against these things. Because I think we get in this Mindset of like, all Halloween is not that big of a deal and you go out there and, yeah, I, I still think that, even if you are a Christian, you can be affected by Witchcraft. It may not be in the sense that you're gonna get possessed or whatever, but you can still be attacked and, yes, you have the Holy Spirit to protect you, but it's still not a pleasant experience and protecting yourself. Yeah, are you just saying it's just a fun day yeah and that's my issue with like what your point of view, katie, is like, oh, it's just whatever. Because if and I think you can probably agree to this if witches are out there doing spells and all kinds of things, then we should be not just whatever, we should be man. This is the day we should be out there, because there's so much more evil being poured out into not just non-believer but non-believers but, yeah, just like weak Christians like we should be out there, talk, like having conversations like this and Evangelizing to people, rather than just that's why we're doing this which I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
So, but here I want to get into a theological thought. Are you familiar with the term of dualism?
Speaker 3:
Doing things at once. Um no, that's multitasking.
Speaker 1:
Or dual task fighting. Let's go dualism. Dualism is the thought that it's God or Jesus for Satan and they are like it's like that. You know it's a Super Bowl, you know 75 and they are gonna battle it out. And you know, to the best. You know spiritual, you know you know Jesus the champ and the defense, or the, the one that's trying to take the reins. I say the challenger, thank you. The challenger state, but you know that Satan can't do anything Unless he gets permission from God. Yeah so he can't like. Anything that Satan does is under the authority of God. So so with if knowing that and there's minions out there that are serving Satan who actually serves God, then it's like you're. You have middle management over you, and I talked to the boss and I've. That's why I feel like You're such a peon of power. Now I'm not gonna go up to Satan, just like in Jude. It says. Even Michael, the archangel Michael, did not go to Satan and rebuke him. He said the Lord rebuke you, but I don't do anything in my own power. I am coming in the name of the Lord, and so that's why Jesus is on my lips, that's why my heart is filled with prayer, and which is why this is where I mean, as a parent, this is something you probably do in two of these pray over your children, like you. Just that's just what you do. Yeah and so, like this morning on my way to school, I blessed each boy, prayed over them, asked favor. Every night we're praying, you know, that's just what you. So I'm not saying ever. I don't know if this is just I'm a pastor. It's not like. It's just kind of I pray over my kids all the time, not because I was trained to do it, not because I'm expected to as a pastor, it's just what I do. Do you pray over your over?
Speaker 3:
Oh, every day.
Speaker 1:
So you, without training, without being a professional Christian, katie sass who looks at Halloween is just Valentine's Day. I Praise over her child without anyone. We, you've never had a conversation with me. I'm like, hey, make sure what I don't know if I have. Have I told you to pray over your children, or prayer, eva, okay. So I just come and say, well, yeah, it's just what you do when you love someone, you're praying over them, you're praying the gospel of your, infusing your whole life and so the protection there I'd say your daughters are probably well, spiritually protected.
Speaker 3:
Oh, I think so.
Speaker 1:
Oh, we're gonna go and I'm tonight Taunting.
Speaker 2:
Evil like we're not taunting.
Speaker 3:
But again the Amara story in the mask, like I don't want to bring her around that maybe when she's older and maybe when we can go and evangelize, and but like there's some really dark decorations out there. Yeah, I'm like this is just not good for a three-year-old.
Speaker 1:
Okay, but fair enough, and maybe that's where you know, as a parent, that that's a great decision for you guys. I love that. I love it as an opportunity to go. You know that we are have power.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, we do like those people.
Speaker 1:
They're flesh and blood it's very whatever power behind that. We have authority over that Power, and so we don't walk in fear, we walk in the gospel grace. And so again, because they're gonna be at school, like my son goes. Hey, I met a trans kid. I was like Fourth grader Mike.
Speaker 4:
So my fifth grader told me about the fourth grader.
Speaker 1:
Who's trans, and so he goes and I go awesome, you know that we love them and that they're confused and that he's like, oh yeah, absolutely. but it's just I was like, wow, there it is right there coming and he was wearing pink earrings and had bleached hair or whatever, and and not that the bleach, not that any of that stuff in himself is bad, but it's like he was, like they clearly were making themselves out to look like a girl when he was a boy and I was like and so did that make you feel weird? No, I know, I know exactly what's going on, because we train them, we, that that stuff we've been talking about since the very since first grade, when we could say, like they could communicate well with us to a point where we can understand Sexuality and all that and anytime we had babysitters, you know, we and now I'm in a different situation on that but like they're gonna be Connected to the world and I've started the training on that kind of stuff from the get-go Because I want them trained to know when they see darkness they can spot it. And so when kids start cussing, my oldest son is just like that means they're controlled by the darkness. They're that means they're controlled by sickness and and that's not good for their soul, and he's able to communicate that because we talk about it, we hear about it, we see about it, and I think that's the thing with Halloween, if you're able to to sort of understand the the world from the perspective of the Christian World view of like we have power over the darkness, satan work. Satan is a middle manager in God's economy and his people are doing their thing and worshiping him and God controls him completely. It's not like. You know. I love the verse. I saw Satan fall like lighting. That's just not only a good song, it's a cool verse. But Jesus sees Satan fall like lightning because it wasn't a battle, it was like and you're done, and so there's complete power. Whenever in revelation 19, whenever Jesus comes on the white horse, he's got the sword in his mouth and there's not. Really it's like and I win. And I think if we forget that and we forget the power of God, I think what happens is what? When we, when we magnify Satan and his power and we Lower Jesus and his power and we make it more of a dualistic threat, that becomes problematic. Anyway, that's all I gotta say on that. Any other thoughts?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I would just about the power, because I agree with you in the name of the of Jesus, we have the power. But I do want to just reach back to that example that I gave, where Zach was looking at the Porn. He came into the room. I saw the demon.
Speaker 1:
I'm so thankful for that experience because before Zach was looking at porn, then the demon came yeah.
Speaker 3:
I think I did it. I said it really quickly so I wanted to come back to it, because he was saying at life group that because of God he's been able to stop porn. And then that night, you had the demon was like uh-uh, You're not getting off that easy what tell me he? pulled Zach like he woke up in the middle of the night, like to him. He was completely pulled to look at porn and he couldn't shake it and you saw the demon, but I was still asleep. He goes to the guest room, he looks at porn, does whatever guys do, come back, I don't even know. He comes back into bed and that's when I woke up, not because of him getting back into bed, but because I was you felt the demonic presence that engaged him yes, engaging you and then. So I woke up just terrified, and it was darker than dark. So I looked into it afterwards and everybody who's encountered a demon says it's just darker than dark. So you don't see a face, you don't see the horns, it's not like the Halloween costumes, it's just darker than dark. It's the feeling, more than anything. So then, yes, then the presence, the look. So then when Zach Got it to go away in the name of Jesus the next morning, I didn't know, I just like sat in bed the rest of the night and we didn't really talk about anything.
Speaker 1:
So you didn't know, they just looked at no, that next day I go to work.
Speaker 3:
I come back from work, he's sitting on the couch. He's like I have to confess something to you. And when he told me I was, I smiled. I was like, oh my god, I understand. For the first time in my life, I understand. It's not that I'm not pretty, it's not that I'm not a good wife and I'm not having enough sex with you. I can't blame myself anymore. I know that this is a spiritual war that we're in and that I have to seriously pray for you. Yes or else you're gonna keep getting attacked. And I wasn't doing that, I was not praying.
Speaker 1:
Okay, but I want to be just one. It's not your fault, so yeah so like sometimes you feel like you know, devin, if you don't be praying a little bit more, maybe Zach wouldn't be so sinful Like so. But what I do think is powerful about that is that what did I happen on Halloween?
Speaker 3:
No, okay.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, but but here's my point that is happening every day, yes, so Halloween is just a day where you get to see it, manifest it physically, so you can understand what we're battling spiritually and I think training up children the ways they should go is helping them wrap their head around that and we're on offense.
Speaker 3:
And I just want. That's where I'm leaving with this. Yeah is that, please, people, be praying for your children? Yes especially on today. Like every day, yes, but like today, I made sure, for sure, for sure, that we did the body of armor with the girls. Nice, that I prayed out loud, like God, please protect them Spiritually, mentally, physically, because today is the field day for the witches in the evil spirits and I, like, I'm not scared completely of them, but I don't want to hang out with them and I don't want them on my children. So, let's just be on defense, off offense, sorry.
Speaker 1:
That's not. That mean Defenses. You put the socialist sign up and you go, turn off the lights and you hide and you get in this panic room.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, do whatever it takes to just pray for your family and your children every day, but especially today, that the evil spirits will not mess with us. They have no place in our life. But if you're not doing that then you might be in a little trouble.
Speaker 1:
All right, any final thoughts there, but Katie sass.
Speaker 2:
Oh, I don't what my brain I'm like I have never talked this much about Halloween and so I'm just like absorb, I'm just like Overwhelmed and I'm processing and I love Devon and I love you. Yeah, are you guys?
Speaker 1:
gonna be friends after this.
Speaker 2:
Oh, my gosh oh.
Speaker 1:
Is that when you guys camp together? Is that when you had that conversation?
Speaker 2:
No.
Speaker 1:
You guys hanging out all your girlfriends. All right, pablo. Final thoughts.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I have. I'm gonna try to keep short, but I just have two, two questions. I feel like we should leave off with okay people that are listening. One is if you are a Christian, that's real, that's you know, is more than just a Sunday goer and you're like really about it. How should you go about Halloween?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think it's personal conviction, so I don't want to just say I don't want to.
Speaker 4:
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so I'd say that'd be a personal conviction.
Speaker 4:
Okay.
Speaker 1:
That's a pun answer if you're asking me how.
Speaker 4:
I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1:
No, but I feel like that's important, that I do feel like, for those that feel convicted in a certain way, I want you to go. That's why I love you, sharing your heart Like I want you to do, to do fully you, and I don't want you to back down from that because you're convicted in that way and I think it's really special. And if I don't hopefully I didn't make you like, alright, honey, we're going trick-or-treating because pastor plek said so. No, I want it to be the conviction the Lord has laid on your heart. You just step boldly into that, I think. But I feel like hearing everything we've said has been important and that people should weigh it and then feel like am I gonna participate in this in a way that I'm on offense? You know, I'm not gonna be an offense where I'm gonna take, you know, water pistols to hell and fire away. Am I going defense, shut the door and keep out the satanic socialists, or am I just gonna, like you know, go to dinner at Applebee's and just have a night? You know, I don't know what.
Speaker 2:
It's like, for example we're not going trick-or-treating tonight because it's gonna be cold. If we end up participating in some sort of Halloween festivity, then it's gonna be with purpose, you know. Like if our neighbors were gonna like. Last year our neighbors had like a cookout and party in their driveway and so we all hung out. They love Halloween. They were all dressed up like every and all the other neighbors came over and we just got to hang out and spend time with Our neighbors. And Ava was a chicken like In, but like the weather was great, it was a very convenient thing for me. But this year it's cold and I'm like well, looks like we we're gonna skip Halloween this year.
Speaker 3:
But it's not because.
Speaker 2:
I'm passionately against it. It's just because it's not convenient for me today All right second second peace.
Speaker 4:
I guess you kind of answered it with the first question, but it was just like if you're a Christian that's not so strong in your faith, how should you go about it? Cuz it, like I said, I don't think you should be trying to go in evangelizing on such a dark day if you don't have your bases covered, like and. And. The other thing I want to bring up was I think you mentioned this, I don't know if it was your, if it was a different podcast, but how or maybe this was someone's story they were like a missionary and they had like a. They were at the bottom of like a mountain and there were people at the top, and to get there, it was like two days there, two days back, so like it would take like a whole week for them to be there to evangelize to these people. But there was like a winter storm coming, so they were like I think I'm just gonna sit here and pray, because it's gonna, I can probably do so much more by praying rather than by being there. And so he stayed and prayed for like five days and then, once the Storm passed through, he went to check in on them and that the whole time that he wasn't there. They were doing so much more that he had already taught them and they had so many more people being converted, and and he wasn't even there, he just prayed. So he realized like sometimes I have more power in praying Rather than actually being out in the field. Love, it.
Speaker 1:
So I think that, man, if you want to pray all Halloween Hallelujah, I think you should. Yeah, all right. Hey, listen. Thanks for watching we man. I hope this was helpful in engaging you. As you engage Halloween. Let us know if you have any questions. Text in 737 231 0605 or come find us at pastorplechcom. So grateful for you. Watch and make sure you like, share and subscribe and Push back the darkness, especially tonight, and have an awesome week of worship you.
