Transcript
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And welcome back to Pastor Plek's podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor Plek, and joining me in studio is none other than Pastor Holland, gregg Holland, welcome.
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Thank you so much, chris.
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You know, having you here is like a bright light on a cold, dark night.
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All right, also with us is Caleb McLemore, and, caleb, I'm so glad you're here.
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Oh, glad to be here, and you are about to share with us your testimony.
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In fact, you wrote in, you said you need to hear my story and I said listen, I don't want to get away in the way of God's providence.
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And so here we are, ready to listen to the story of stories.
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Well, the big the re.
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What put this on my heart was a couple of things.
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One is, uh, my wife Melanie for those that just only know me as Melanie's husband, I do have a name but, um, she floated out about a year ago while we were, uh, cause she's heard the story of like how, when I was like moved out from Texas to LA and then back to Texas and all that, and she was like this would be good to share that for parents that sometimes get worried about what they're especially adult kids that are doing if they're kind of straying away like it's a good cause.
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It's a prodigal son story.
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Okay, and I've been floating about it, cause part of me was like maybe it's just like, since I had a previous career as an actor, I was like I don't want this to be an ego thing, I want to only share this because it's something that would be edifying to God.
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Yeah, so a whole year of wrestling with it.
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And then, when I shared, I made a little two-minute video for the church's anniversary.
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Yeah, that was one of the best videos we had.
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Yeah, I've had people keep coming and telling me that Luckily, I was glad we were out of town the week it premiered, but uh, and so people keep telling, kept telling me that I was like, maybe, that this is like god, maybe trying to say like people need to hear this then, because clearly it's resonating with people.
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Well for sure, so well, when I read your story I was like that's the sunrise version.
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It's pretty intense home.
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Wow.
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Yeah, well, let's hear it.
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I guess a lot of it, too, is like, uh, so like what start from the beginning, or you know let's start from the middle.
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Sure of you involved in some bdsm sex club?
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That's towards the end.
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But yes, like that's where it goes.
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That's like how crazy I was just like I was not like caleb mclemore.
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You see him.
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You think, think Dungeons and Dragons.
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You don't think Dungeons and Whips and all the other stuff.
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I was like this was not something I was prepared for.
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Yeah, Well, how?
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does it get there?
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So tell us, like there you were, you were in church as a pastor's kid and then you graduate from high school.
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What happens?
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Sure, I go to Azusa Pacific University.
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Is that a Christian school, yes, out in Azusa, california.
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Is that?
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where the Azusa Street Revival is.
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Yes, when you mentioned that in the sermon, whenever that was, I was like wait, how do you?
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I wasn't expecting to hear my college get brought up.
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I know the big claim to fame for APU is I think that's where John MacArthur went.
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That was his college, great Christian college, but it's just.
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I learned a ton.
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But between going to chapel three times a week and you have to take 18 years of biblical studies on top of whatever else you're doing and, of course, all your gen eds, everything is filtered through the lens of obviously talking about God, which is good.
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Then by senior year I'm burnt out and I'm just like over it because it became a.
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I'm doing this because I'm wanting to learn about God too.
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I just need to graduate, I need to get these credits, I need to.
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Just so it became checking the box versus worshiping God, right, and at the same time, a woman I'm I won't share her name cause I know it's a small world, don't need her trying to get back in contact with me.
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But there was a woman I was kind of having an on-again, off-again relationship with, and it started in college because we both knew each other, we both ran similar circles, so when I burnt out post-college.
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I didn't go to church After I graduated.
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The next time I went to church was when I came to Wells Branch.
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Oh wow.
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So it was about four and a half close to five years later.
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Wow.
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So that was like 10 years ago or so.
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Yeah, I'd say yeah, 2014.
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Yeah, and I had this dumb idea in my head of, like, I have all this knowledge, I wrote these really dense papers on all these different topics I'm good head knowledge-wise and that was very dumb because I had the mentality of, hey, I can still see the shore, so I can go further out into the ocean.
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I'm fine as long as I can still see the shore, right.
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And this woman I was having this back and forth with uh, she's the woman I like first woman who had like sex or like go all the way with.
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So there was that immediate like me trying to like, pursue her, to like in my mind, potentially marriage Right, and so dressing further and further away because she eventually, uh, is dating some other guy in there.
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Uh, engaged to be, they're engaged.
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I, because we were basically friends with benefits.
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Uh, convince her to break up with the guy to date me instead.
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Wow, and yeah, oh no, I drifted pretty far at this.
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This is you having a friends with benefits relationship to a girl that's engaged she's in and you're like, hey, listen, it's probably not going to work out with him, come date me.
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Yeah, I'm not.
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And you're like, hey, listen, it's probably not going to work out with him, come date me.
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Yeah, when you think back on it, it's weird that it worked.
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By most means.
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I should have like failed spectacularly, but and also by this point I had drifted because I was just trying to get an acting career going and because I wasn't actively going to church and being around community.
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I was just kind of doing my own thing of like.
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In my head I'm okay by whatever standard, I had that day Right and so that's why, like in the email when I sent you, it's like fast forward, let's say, I graduated so fast.
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For a couple of years I'm hosting molest shows, I am doing gigs for stuff like for various companies.
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One of them is playboy.
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There are no pictures.
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It was good, yeah, um, and, like I said, convinced her to break up their fiance was this all part of like your acting like aspirin acting?
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how'd you get into that world like?
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how do you like okay?
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yeah, no, okay.
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So when you're setting out to find auditions, yeah, uh, there's various filters you can put on, but obviously when you're brand new and you're just trying to find auditions, uh, there's various filters you can put on, but obviously when you're brand new and you're just trying to get a resume built, you don't really say no to much, except the only like hard no.
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And it got beaten to my head from my professors at college.
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They're like, if you do porn, I will find you and kill you.
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Every single one of them said that Wow, like, we will each find you, kill you, bring you back to life and kill you again.
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So don't Wow.
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And yeah.
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I know, right, you had to get in line Cause my family would beat you to it first.
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But, um, so you go and you look at different things and I had my hard boundaries of like I'm not going to do full nudity, I'm not going to do certain types of characters, but because I was willing to bend on a few things.
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One of the things I look back on now is Satan's really good at when you find something you're willing to bend on.
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Right, I'm making a bend really far.
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Yeah, it's not technically breaking, so you're still within your rules.
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And next thing, you know, I so as long as you were hosting the party, but not like I'm not an active dancer.
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That's actually like stripping down.
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I'm fully clothed, so it's that you're not technically breaking your rules and cause.
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I was for the burlesque shows that he called variety shows.
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But let's be real, everyone was there for the dancers.
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You weren't there for the comedians or the anybody else.
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This is during the time after college, before you came to Wells branch.
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In this period of like I'm burnt out on God, yeah.
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Summer 2014, until about Memorial day of 2018.
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Wow.
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That whole like period and so that was an audition where I got involved with variety shows, with the well burlesque shows, the.
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The playboy thing is literally just a hey, you want to make 80 bucks to watch these videos and react to them.
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Literally it's all it was and I made 80 bucks to go do that, wow.
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So, like I said, not good, I mean you look back and it's like real good pastor's kid Congratulations, yeah.
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And that's where I do think, realize, like it is the prodigal son story of I got as low as it.
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I mean it just kept getting lower and lower and uh, so they're paying me to base my mind yeah, literally like I was paid to watch uh parodies, to put it kindly, and react to it.
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And uh, and then I, the woman I was dating, we dated for a while and this is where I thought my head, I I'm going to, we're going to turn it around, cause she was like I don't know if it's like part of the stereotype of like diehard Catholic but also sexual degenerate Sure, I don't know.
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But I was like, okay, we're going to turn around, cause she has interest in the Bible, like I do.
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We can start talking, we can find a church.
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I was like, okay, we can turn this around, I can turn this ship around which I'm looking back like wrong way to look at that.
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Yeah, yeah and um, eventually she gets into because she's talking.
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Also, she finds this person that does like bdsm stuff and which I was going to like do like a soft pitch into that.
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But since you just jumped right in, uh, and she got into it, where she was like she would go do scenes, I can proudly say I never went to see any of those.
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Praise God for that, honestly, cause I probably, I would probably wouldn't see it into my head.
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And and, uh, she fell in love with it.
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She was trying to convince me to come watch the scenes or take part.
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Suddenly she was into polyamory.
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It went from like I was on the edge of that cliff and this was the part that I got pushed off and I'm free falling.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, free falling, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow and uh.
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So yeah, I mean, like, I mean, I'm sure you definitely had deep feelings for this girl and she's you know she's flirting with this line of absolute.
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Well, she's probably not flirting, she's like way beyond and is free falling and you're sitting there going.
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That sounds really attractive or like scary.
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What was, what were the thoughts in your head?
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I mean it's kind of a mix.
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It's just I had such a especially at this point I had spent most because I was around, I was about 27.
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So at this point I had spent most of my 20s on and off with her Right.
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So I guess, I don't know, sunk cost fallacies.
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Oh yeah, I've already spent this much time.
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Exactly, I was like I have to be the one to pull this airplane up and yeah, maybe a savior complex, who knows but like because I, because I knew what she was getting into, I was like this is terrible, right.
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And then she opened up to because I was not immediately on board with all this stuff, right, and I do think that was the holy spirit, like being like no, no, this is the, you have found the line.
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You're not going beyond this for you, for me yeah.
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I already know Like I was committed all kinds of sins at this point, but, like the Holy spirit was like this is a point of no return, you're not crossing it.
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Yeah, cause I was like cause I had just strangely put my foot down on this Like I'm not doing this, I'm not getting involved with this, if you want to do it whatever.
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Cause I was thinking she'll get out of her system Cause she's bipolar, I don't know Like it could be a just she'll get over in like a month or two.
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And then that was the point of everything breaking up and going, just exploding, and we had a terrible breakup.
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And then, of course, then we didn't get back together, but we're still talking.
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She literally helped me pack up my car to move back to Texas.
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Her dad bought most of my furniture, which is hilarious, but um, uh, I didn't say I was a smart man.
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During all of this.
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I was, uh, confused, very confused, and on purpose and running from God, so not making wise choices because of that.
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Yeah, and um, but what prompted you to come to Texas?
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I didn't want to come back home, okay, cause my family being in Odessa.
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I do remember cause the when we had the big blow up.
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I remember driving home and had my dad on the phone and it was like midnight and of course, midnight in California is 2am in Texas and I'm it's like that ugly cry where, like, you need subtitles to understand what the person is saying.
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But because my it's my dad, he understands everything.
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I'm saying, yeah, and I was like I want to go home and he was like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
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like pulled over on the side I mean, did he know, like kind, of, what was going on, or did you tell him?
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like well, not, he didn't know all the bad stuff.
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Okay, I was, that's the other thing.
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I was holding a lot of secrets, not?
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yeah the only person I really knew was my sister and she was trying to like, from the point of like a social worker, being like get away from her, and I just wasn't listening.
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But, um, at first he was like, oh yeah, just pull from the side of the road, like let it all out so that way you can focus on driving.
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And I was like, no, no, I want to come home.
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And he's like to texas.
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I was like, yeah, I'm done, I quit, I'm done, I can't do this anymore.
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And he's like to Texas.
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I was like, yeah, I'm done, I quit, I'm done, I can't do this anymore.
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And he's like, okay.
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And of course he told me, like take a couple of days to once the emotion is out, think about it.
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But then he's like, you can absolutely come home.
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He's like.
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He even told me he's like, honestly, I've been kind of waiting for you to say it, and that's where I compare him to being like the dad and the prodigal son story of every day waiting for his son to come home.
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Cause that's how he was with me.
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He was constantly telling me find a church, find a church.
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And knowing I wasn't going to church and, as I found out later, he was actively praying that for me to come back, cause he could tell how much I was like, even though I wouldn't tell him what I was doing.
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He knew there was something happening, because you can't fool up.
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I mean, kids can't fool their parents as much as hard as we try, you can't fool your parent.
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And so yeah, so you get to Odessa and you move back in for a bit, and then what gets you to Austin?
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I was still pursuing acting at the time, so I wanted to find somewhere that was had like an up-and-coming, like film stuff and like austin is centrally located to where if I need to go to dallas or houston or san antonio, it's not too far.
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And part of it, too, is I was still staying in contact with her at this point because the day I finally cut her off was on my 28th birthday.
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So that's why I remember wow and um and in the I think three weeks I was in Odessa before I found an apartment in Austin, she had already told me all these stories in detail Like, oh yeah, I went to this, like I know it's a Christian podcast, I'll keep it PG 13, super degenerate party and did all this crazy stuff.
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Like just telling me in detail and like I did, I was like part of this threesome and I did this.
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Not, it's shattering my heart because I still held on to this really faint hope that you get be able to get, it could be fixed right, but she just went to a place of no return seemingly.
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Yeah.
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Looking back on it now, it's like, yeah, she had hit the point where, like this is literally only God can do this, like my part is done.
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I didn't see it yet and I was trying to reason with her, as when she told me like all the stuff I talked about theology, and all that, she's like I didn't pay attention to anything you said and everything I had told her like just went.
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So the biggest thing that I relied on being like my head knowledge did nothing.
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So that's part of like what shattered me.
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So when I moved to Austin, I have nothing.
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I don't have any furniture in this.
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I'm sitting in a big empty apartment by myself as she's telling me all these stories about what she's getting into.
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And that's where, like in the video when I shared that I think I can't remember the exact chain of events that led up to it.
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I just remember getting into my apartment and having like an out of body experience of like.
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It's like I was kind of like on the outside looking in as my body moved on its own Cause.
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There was like a paring knife I had from previous job as a traveling salesman yeah, and I remember grabbing and just staring at it and like the me that was like on the outside, was like what are you doing?
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And then like I grabbed it and I like just kind of like looked at my wrist, looked at the knife and like I put it to my nut, to my wrist, and I was just like contemplating do I like do I go?
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Do I just like cut?
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Do I just press in, like how do I want to do this?
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And I'm, I don't know soul, whatever, like it's like you know, trying to yell like stop, don't do this.
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Wow.
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And in the video, when I say it's a holy spirit, because with a level of authority I have never heard before or since, I heard a loud voice yell stop.
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And it's like I jumped back into my body, threw the knife against the wall and I just crumpled down and started crying Hmm, hmm, so, man, yeah.
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So that's where I was at my lowest point when I was talking about that in the video.
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Yeah, so was that after you came to church, or like Before, so before?
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So how did you find our church?
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Well, I finally was listening to my dad, who had been telling me he's like, please find a church, yeah, and so I literally looked up like I know, it's near me.
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Yeah, it sounds so anticlimactic when you say it like that.
00:17:15.330 --> 00:17:19.726
Well, no, but like that honestly most people, um, that's how most.
00:17:23.776 --> 00:17:28.980
Uh, I looked it up and, luckily, as I've told people before I've asked, I was like who I was running the website at the time.
00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:31.303
Great job, because I was researching it.
00:17:31.303 --> 00:17:35.255
Yeah, cause I saw a lot of like obviously weird churches in Los Angeles.
00:17:35.255 --> 00:17:36.540
They're all over the place.
00:17:36.540 --> 00:17:50.961
Yeah, so I was like I need to research this church, cause my, what my dad told me is like, just make sure they're theologically sound, right, and they're actually teaching from, teach you from the bible, right, please?
00:17:50.961 --> 00:17:53.612
So way to go, dad, yeah, well, yeah, he just he's like you got out of this stuff, please don't get back into something worse.
00:17:53.612 --> 00:17:54.817
Yeah, and uh, so I looked up the website.
00:17:54.817 --> 00:18:00.738
You had a few like previous sermons and stuff had a young adults group, everything theologically checked out.
00:18:00.738 --> 00:18:03.522
So I was like, okay, I will give this place a chance.
00:18:03.522 --> 00:18:09.603
And I showed up when they had like a camera with the young adults.
00:18:09.643 --> 00:18:17.758
they was well or the link the link and, um, like, I showed up, picked the best time to show up because it was when they were having halloween party.
00:18:17.758 --> 00:18:25.625
So, not talking about god or anything and everyone's kind of like a split off into the little frame groups, which it's fine, it's what you do at a party.
00:18:25.625 --> 00:18:30.179
And so I'm just sitting there like heavily depressed because it wasn't.
00:18:30.179 --> 00:18:32.503
This is a couple, two, three weeks ago.
00:18:32.503 --> 00:18:39.673
I had almost taken a attempt on my life and that's why I'm forever grateful that it was john sharp that walked over.
00:18:39.673 --> 00:18:43.702
Yeah, yeah, just said hey, like it's like, and just started talking to me.
00:18:43.702 --> 00:18:47.601
He didn't even say like what's wrong, he just started talking to me like he already knew me.
00:18:47.961 --> 00:18:49.346
Yeah, wow, that's amazing.
00:18:51.976 --> 00:19:29.923
I told him, you know, like new try and find a church, and all that Invited me to his community group and from there I initially just came to Link, initially like just for the first few weeks, just kind of see like what the church is like, how people uh, especially on weeks that aren't Halloween parties, and I started coming on Sundays and I just slowly got more involved from there and, uh, when I one of the things that helped as well is cause at the time, uh, when y'all were doing y'all had like a therapy program here and I was paying for therapy and it was not cheap, especially cause I was deep in debt, right.
00:19:30.424 --> 00:19:36.407
So when it was like it was free, I like perked up, I was like hold on and yeah, uh, so that helped me a ton.
00:19:36.407 --> 00:19:50.750
Yeah, to get better aligned of like why where I obviously the many places I erred and how to get back with God Not back, but like how to get God centered in my life again.
00:19:50.750 --> 00:19:57.644
And after that I remember it was John when I was like hey, I'm ready to kind of like I want to serve.
00:19:57.644 --> 00:20:00.319
He was like children's, they always need new people.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.917
I've been there ever since.
00:20:02.917 --> 00:20:04.121
I've been there since 2019.
00:20:04.141 --> 00:20:04.762
That's wild.
00:20:04.942 --> 00:20:05.484
Wow.
00:20:06.066 --> 00:20:06.606
Well, way to go.
00:20:06.606 --> 00:20:07.941
Well, that's a wild story.
00:20:07.941 --> 00:20:10.777
2019.
00:20:10.777 --> 00:20:11.238
That's wild, wow.
00:20:11.238 --> 00:20:11.558
Well, way to go.
00:20:11.558 --> 00:20:12.442
Well, that's, that's a wild story.
00:20:12.442 --> 00:20:14.508
So then, um, yeah, so John really played an impactful part of your life.
00:20:14.508 --> 00:20:15.289
Um, that's wild.
00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:16.635
That's just a kind of a cool story.
00:20:16.635 --> 00:20:26.203
Man, what would you say to people that are like wrestling with depression, sadness, um any of that stuff?
00:20:26.203 --> 00:20:29.759
Like like, what would you, what's your advice or counsel?
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.143
the thing I would, because I know, because I know for a lot of people.
00:20:34.143 --> 00:20:37.858
Demons, unfortunately, are very adaptive.
