Transcript
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor plec, and joining me in studio today is none other than senor cody sparks.
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Welcome, cody sparks.
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Hello of the cody sparks band still here, and then also jordan smith.
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Uh, so glad that you can be joining us today, jordan.
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How are you?
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doing well, sir, thank well sir, thank you.
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All right.
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So we're going to be talking about something controversial and there's been a lot posted tweeted about this particular situation.
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I'd love to get some of your guys' feedback.
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Start with the old codester over here, cody.
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Oh, I'm playing catch-up.
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Oh yeah, yeah, Not catch-up, catch-up ketchup, but a little bit right because I mean, this is a tough one yeah, but it's not well.
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No, I mean it's it's a little bit of mixture and my thing is is that, is it really the last supper?
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Is it greek mythology?
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Is it death riding in on the white horse, like we talk about on tombstone, or or is it?
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Or is it the other?
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It's?
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a hard to tie in it's paris.
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What do?
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you expect.
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Yeah, yeah, so there's a lot of that, um, so let's talk it through.
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I feel like there's a lot here, all right, um, I'm I'm probably thinking that this opening ceremony was not conducted by christ.
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Could we just all agree with that, has it?
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really any been.
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Yeah, I mean honestly it's like well, yeah, this is probably the worst one I've ever seen, though honestly, Right right.
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Well, there's some woke Christians too right.
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Sure, sure, okay, fair enough.
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But first off, there's a whole drag spread.
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I guess Jesus is a woman.
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There's a whole drag spread.
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I guess Jesus is a woman.
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And then they kind of do when they brought it on TV.
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You've got the woman there in the middle with the little heart and if you know this, jesus would always hold a little heart.
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So clearly she's representing Jesus.
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Now what the makers of the act have said is that it's just showing love, like we represent diversity, inclusion, all that, okay, fine.
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The problem is you've got like a posed situation, like slow motion of the characters in the background taking on different poses to sort of reflect a last supper attitude, and then the Greek god, dionysus, kind of comes down on a big dinner plate and so it's kind of a mix of and if you know this about now, this is where you could say it really is Dionysus, and the reason why I say that is Dionysus is the god of winemaking, orchards, fruit, vegetation, festivity, fertility, insanity, ritual madness, religious ecstasy and theater.
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So this does fit.
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It does fit with what they're doing.
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They want it to take ritual madness, religious ecstasy and insanity and put it all into one thing.
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I'm like you have honored.
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Well, if your goal was to honor Dionysus and if a byproduct of that was mocking Christianity, well done.
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You achieved your goal.
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But as a Christian, I look at that and I clearly know they are mocking Christ.
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And this is where you know, am I to judge non-Christians?
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Maybe not, but I think it's unloving to go.
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Yeah, that was funny Because it wasn't right, that was a horrific show of I don't know.
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I guess blasphemy I mean really.
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Imagine if this was like Muhammad and whatever the version of the Last Supper Muhammad had, there would be blood spilling all over the world.
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And what you're getting from Christians is going.
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That's disrespectful, you should not do that which just sort of shows why Christianity is so powerful.
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And what Elon Musk said is that Christianityianity is toothless, which I don't think.
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that's probably because elon musk doesn't understand the no, true right, so anyway, or is he saying we should be flipping tables right or should we flip it?
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No, the only people that that jesus flipped tables on?
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were religious leaders right and so clearly these are lost people doing lost things.
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Um, do they need to be held accountable?
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To whatever degree, you can cancel them.
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If you want to get back into where you have not a separation between church and state and the church is the state, then you'd probably have a problem, do you?
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think, though, that maybe he wasn't talking about just the Last Supper, that he was saying we're toothless due to the fact that we don't speak up when it's like drag in our face, pushing lbgtq rs tv on us, uh, throwing all the other things in our face, not just christianity, as in they're mocking the last supper, but all the above that happened there, because there was a lot of things that I was sitting there watching going.
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Are you kidding me?
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If I had a five, six, seven, eight year old older kid, I'd turn off right, this is out of control this.
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I watched it because I I love the olympics forever my whole life.
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I've always loved the olympics.
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That is the one that blew my mind yeah, there was just no reason for it.
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I like, I it's kind of like if you could do.
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And this is where, again, they make the argument.
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It's about Dionysus, yes, but you're using the Last Supper to celebrate Dionysus, which makes it even worse.
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Anyway, why would you have a naked man for a family?
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I mean, we would call that grooming, and there was a child in that.
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Um, last supper, reenactment and dionysus comes.
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Dionysus, the god comes down and a big dinner plate.
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Uh, is that's what they're going to eat, right, which is just a sexual?
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A naked dude is the sexual thing that genie it's so wild to me how that becomes.
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So I think your point let's go down your point your point is that Christians don't speak up enough, not just on a religious context, but about LGBTQIA issues, Politics.
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Politics, all the above, I mean yeah.
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It takes a president to get shot, assassination attempt for people to finally be like, okay, is it?
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That's enough, enough right, I mean if you if trump would have been, like, murdered, what would the outcome?
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That would probably broke out into the civil war.
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Really, I mean, it would have been weird, which is a whole side note on that.
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We're not going to go on a rabbit trail, but it's crazy okay, I'll pause on that I want to hear what you think the because you're thinking there needs to be more, at least vocal outrage from Christians.
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Well, it's more like stand up for yourself, be like hey, we don't want that, okay, fair enough, rather than us being just like passive just like eh, it's fine, We'll just not watch it or not do it Eventually, enough is enough.
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Okay.
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Jordan, talk to me about your thoughts, thoughts, uh, you've, you've seen the.
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you know pieces of this opening ceremony act.
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How did it come across to you?
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Uh, that's kind of a loaded question, but, um, artistic expression, I guess.
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But also, like you said, it's kind of pushing the idea that you know everyone's accepted for who they are and it you know.
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It also kind of implies that, since it's using the last supper, that you know everyone's accepted for who they are and you know.
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It also kind of implies that, since it's using the Last Supper, that you know, oh, jesus is okay with all of this.
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So obviously I think that's bad.
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And to get back to one of Cody's questions about Elon Musk's statement, the word toothless to me means like violence, almost, and if he's saying that, then he an idiot, because jesus didn't show that at all but, I agree, like you said, or there's just been a bunch of public pushback on this already, which I think you know as christians that's what we should be doing right, so do you.
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But do you think like how offended should Christians be at this?
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I mean, as a Christian myself, I'm not offended by it at all.
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But one thing you did say is it can influence younger people who are watching it.
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So that's, I didn't take that into account.
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So that's kind of dangerous.
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So do you think?
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there is a part of us that we've become so accustomed to not being offended because we're above that.
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This is not our home.
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Earth is not our home.
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Heaven is our home and so therefore we are not offended by anything.
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People can say whatever they want, and so we don't react in disgust and say I can't be around that and we have been around in openly mocked situations, and is that bad?
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I think that's the question that I'm wrestling with, as I sort of take this on, Because I think you're right If nobody pushes back, like I think back in the day, whenever they had Gay Pride Day at Disney and then the Baptists boycotted it, I was like I kind of rolled my eyes at that.
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Right Now I'm kind of like Probably should have yeah right, like you know.
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Maybe that was the right move.
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What made you roll your eyes?
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Because I was like what kind of message is that sending?
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right.
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The reason I roll my eyes is like is it sends the message you don't want to be around gay people, and that's not it at all.
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It's just that you don't want your culture to be informed by a subset that, uh, stands for a sexuality that is completely against God's design.
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Right, I think that's where I would struggle with that, and and I and I think that I was like don't you want to be around gay people so that you could influence them for Christ?
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However, if you never get around to the influencing for Jesus part because you I don't know, you're not bold with your faith, then maybe boycotting is the best thing you do.
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The problem with that is it sends a message if you're not wanted.
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Well, how do you influence your faith in this specific scenario?
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Yeah, I think that's why it's a huge question.
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I think there is a.
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So whenever homosexuality was let's just call it gay marriage, gay marriage was not legal.
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When it was illegal, it was way easier to kind of show a person like hey, this is clearly here's where the morality of government lines up with the morality of Christians.
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Clearly this is a universal thing.
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Okay, then when that shifted, now it became the Christians are going against the grain on stuff and to some extent that's good right, because we're showing a morality that's unique and for God and his purposes and his design.
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But it does take away a sense of a conviction of sin that you get just naturally.
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I think sometimes people in this Dionysus, because the God of wine festivals insanity, literally.
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If you're the God of wine festivals, insanity what?
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Literally?
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If you're the God of insanity, you're the God of whatever I think is right, is right, there is no wrong, and I think that's you know.
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Can I give a new definition of insanity?
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It's like you know the classic was it Einstein?
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You know, you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting.
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Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result.
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That's insanity.
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That's not insanity.
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But I think, since we're making up insanity definitions, I'd say trying to make something, calling something one thing, like calling a man a woman, is insanity, like that's where you, and then making that normal for everybody.
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I feel like we're living in the age of the emperor has no clothes, that's legit.
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And then, when it really gets worse, it's like, yes, men can have babies.
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Right.
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And you're like I'm so sorry, do what.
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Right, I've never heard that Like they can physically have babies.
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Oh, that's a big deal.
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That side fights for it.
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It's like, yeah, men can have babies.
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For was like, yeah, men can have babies, and you're like that doesn't, that doesn't make sense.
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Like there's, there's somebody in congress or somewhere the other day testifying and was like, yeah, in there, like you really believe men can have babies right, so you get a uterus transplant.
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The only time I've seen that is that arnold schwarzenegger movie where he twins.
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No, not twins uh, what was it called?
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Yes, I know what you're talking about where he carried.
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Yeah, that was.
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That was great and that's funny.
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That was humor.
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Yeah, it was like a joke.
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Now it's to the point where no, this is a real deal, it's just awkwardly weird.
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I mean, yeah, there's no evidence of it.
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So why don't they just show?
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Okay, show me.
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Therefore you can have a baby.
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Oh, okay, right, interesting it is.
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It's weird.
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So I think again, for the longest time we've been like oh, okay, yeah, that is crazy to us, but to them that's like truth.
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They're like no, we really believe this, this is a real deal.
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And we just sit back and we're like y'all are just crazy, but in their heads they're like this is real right, and I think that's that's why that's why we and we don't speak up, therefore but this, to me, is why this, this opening ceremony, was so I would call it perfect, but kind of perfect.
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And the reason why I think it was perfect is because it showed the absolute insanity by worshiping the god.
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Like putting the god of insanity on a pedestal on top of jesus, literally um.
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It shows how far we have drifted from the truth.
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Like france used to be like catholic central, like that was.
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Like you know, when you think france, you think catholics, like that's why I think louis, louisiana, they have some French Creole thing going on down there and they're Catholic, quebec Catholic.
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And so to look at it now and sort of like going what is happening and I think this is where we are living in the age of the emperor has no clothes.
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It's the.
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What is insane is normal, and what is normal is insane.
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And that you know this is straight.
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I feel like just revelations of not revelation, but like a Romans one, you've exchanged the glory of God for a lie and then are starting to worship created things and then the perverseness is judgment on humanity because of, like, what you're seeing was not what God intended.
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So I like kind of where you're going initially, not what god intended.
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So, so so to the I like kind of where you're going initially is like it doesn't offend you.
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So tell me what you mean by that, because I think when I hear it doesn't offend me, I'm like this, okay, it's kind of like this if someone started mocking my wife or cat calling my wife, shouldn't I get offended by that?
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uh, yeah, I'd say you should be offended in that example okay.
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So what's the difference then between someone mocking your wife and mocking god?
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and maybe that's maybe I'm just seeing the silver lining here, but this has put christianity in the forefront right 100%.
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That's why I love that, because we're talking about Jesus and we're using.
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The whole world saw Jesus Now, granted not the way we portray him, but we're talking about Jesus through that lens.
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Well, it's just showing the blowback too right?
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That's the part.
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Yeah, but I feel like how could we have gotten to a point as a global culture let's call it global culture where mocking jesus is seen as like a good thing?
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So I think it starts with mocking, or I feel like this is where the not that we need to go, we're gonna have a holocaust against christians.
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But in the 20s and 30s, with the jews in germany, you would.
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You would cartoon the jews.
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They were big, rich people that were, you know, hoarding money, and they were like plot.
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You know that's what all the, all the newspapers would cartoon jews to be like that, and what I think we're seeing is you're cartooning christians be like that, which I'm sure the left has cartooned trump to be the worst person in the world, which is why then people want to shoot him.
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So I do think there is a responsibility as Christians to protect the greater flock of Christians as a whole, especially kids.
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All that, to speak out against it in some form or fashion.
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I think the hard part is how do we say that?
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The hard part is how do we say that?
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Because last night, at my men's group.
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You know Kaler, who used to identify I love saying used to identify but he used to identify as a gay person and then a gay Christian, and now he doesn't identify as gay at all.
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He said when he saw that Olympics his heart broke for them because he said that's who I used to be.
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Yeah, and boy, that shut us all up because I think we were kind of like, you know, making fun of it a little bit.
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And then all of a sudden he goes that I I know you guys are angry about that, but that's who I was and so my heart breaks for them in their sin.
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And I was like only kaylor could say that and it made an impact and everyone was like, oh yeah let's pray for them like that was the, that was like we only.
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Kaler could say that and it made an impact and everyone was like, oh yeah, let's pray for them.
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That was like we all repented right there.
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We prayed for all the people involved and sort of like globally, because that's who Kaler was and he has repented and is now wanting to live for Jesus.
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That was a wild perspective.
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So Jordan from your perspective, like talk to me then.
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Do you see it from that way or are you still kind of like, ah, it's whatever.
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I mean.
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So my perspective on the people in general is I mean, I'm trying to see it from their viewpoint right, they're nonbelievers stuck in their sin, if you will.
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So why?
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They probably don't see it as any sort of offensiveness, like even for us.
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Like you know, some shows have, you know, portrayed muhammad and you know it's, it's comedy.
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I don't know if you found, did you find that funny?
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I haven't seen one where muhammad's portrayed in a funny way but even then I would, I would be careful, well, well, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, you see that as common South Park.
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Which one South Park South Park?
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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:02.653 --> 00:18:03.074
South Park.
00:18:03.074 --> 00:18:03.795
That's funny, yeah.
00:18:03.795 --> 00:18:06.744
So how is that different here?
00:18:06.744 --> 00:18:11.705
Because you're mocking the Islamic people at that point, right, sure.
00:18:12.567 --> 00:18:17.637
Yeah, but I still think that would be, I would be treading, I would be treading.
00:18:17.637 --> 00:18:20.104
I don't think the goal I think so.
00:18:20.104 --> 00:18:21.006
I don't know.
00:18:21.006 --> 00:18:43.346
As a Christian I'd have my goal to mock openly someone's faith system, because I think that would sort of build up walls and again, I'm not trying to be like hands across America on this but at the same time I want to offend people at the right spot.
00:18:43.346 --> 00:18:45.640
Now to your point.
00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:46.242
They don't know.
00:18:46.242 --> 00:18:48.021
I think they were trying to offend Christians.
00:18:48.021 --> 00:18:49.781
I think they were trying to stick it to them.
00:18:49.781 --> 00:19:02.144
I think someone was like they probably started off with Dionysus, the Greek god of merrymaking, wine and insanity, and like what's the most insane thing you could think of?
00:19:02.144 --> 00:19:04.423
And you go oh, what about this?
00:19:04.855 --> 00:19:18.635
You put the Last Supper and you make the God Dionysus the Last Supper for Jesus and you make Jesus a woman with a putting her, you know, doing the little heart thing that Jesus, I mean, that's that would be funny.
00:19:18.635 --> 00:19:26.843
But if, from that perspective, to say your Jesus is not real, and again, so I guess this goes back to, is it?
00:19:26.843 --> 00:19:32.787
I feel like there's a part of which we don't get offended.
00:19:32.787 --> 00:19:38.832
When someone's unintentionally trying to, they're just being themselves and they're cussing all over the place.
00:19:39.214 --> 00:19:40.855
Right, so you saw this as malicious, a malicious attack.
00:19:40.894 --> 00:19:48.239
Yeah, I think they're intentionally trying to mock Christians, and I don't think they.
00:19:48.239 --> 00:19:59.585
I don't know if they start off that way, but when they put the Last Supper team out there and then had Dionysus come down on a big plate, to me that's like, okay, come on.
00:19:59.585 --> 00:20:06.203
And then for them to be like, oh, if you were offended, I didn't even see it that way.
00:20:06.203 --> 00:20:07.145
At least own it.
00:20:07.145 --> 00:20:07.948
I guess that's what I'm saying.
00:20:08.316 --> 00:20:22.779
Own the fact that you were trying to stick it to christians oh, just own it and then we can go okay, now we can have a war of words, and you know, I think that's totally fine well, I think, how do you, how do you deny it?
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.242
they're saying that it's nothing.
00:20:24.242 --> 00:20:42.038
All allusions to the last supper were purely coincidental they're like oh, there was actually 14 people on this one right, you know completely different yeah they're like no, there wasn't there, it wasn't the same, like they wasn't even facing the same direction right they were like yeah, yeah, literally in different parts of it.
