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270: Pastor Plek and Catie Sas are joined by Pastor Mo this week to talk about the Catholic Church's bold new direction of blessing same-sex unions. Tune in to hear more as they navigate the historical significance of blessings, the influential power of the clergy, and the intricate dynamics of faith in personal relationships.
Faith, culture, and everything in between.
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00:06 - The Implications of Blessing Same-Sex Marriage
14:40 - The Struggle of the Catholic Church
26:50 - The Rise of a Counter Culture
35:14 - Promoting Salvation and God's Forgiveness
Speaker 1:
And welcome back to Pastor Plex podcast. I'm so glad all of you are joining us for a recording live here from Austin, texas, and with me in studios none other than Pastor Muhammad Ali. Welcome, pastor Moe Yep. And then also with me is Mrs Katie Sass, one of my favorite people in the world, katie, rocking a side braid, looking good, hey, thanks. Yeah, we're really excited to have all of you with us, and one of the things that we're going to be talking about this morning, beyond the side braid, is the Catholic Church, through the Pope, has kind of radically departed from their past historical doctrine of not blessing same sex marriage, and now they're bringing pronouncing blessings upon gay couples that are asking the church to bless their marriage, and Pastor Moe's shot me a text I think it was December 18 saying, hey, you got to check this out and I was like man, this is great fodder to talk about, because I think that this is the direction that most of culture is headed, although I do feel like there's a strong counterculture underneath all that. That we're going to see heading itself up in a couple years, but for right now, this is it. It's like if you don't subscribe to the LGBTQIA agenda, then you're sort of missing out on being on the right side of history. So let's talk about this First off, when we were talking before this podcast, what does it mean for a priest or a pope to bless a same sex marriage? And I think that question is probably predicated what's it mean to bless something? I think we were asking that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And you asked the great question of why does it have to go through the priest?
Speaker 1:
Right. Historically and this and I think what I love about UK is from your perspective we all have the perspective that our faith, like Christianity, sort of started when we became a Christian. And historically, thousands of years ago, you would bring to the priest your horse, your carriage, your home, your, whatever your building. I'm dedicating this building to God and it was a really righteous reason to do it. And then the question you asked okay, I'm down with it being a righteous reason. I'm all for my house being blessed by God, and I said earlier too that whenever Austin was like sub two years old, screaming his brains out, we were like casting demons out of his bedroom. We were doing whatever we could for sleep because it was just like.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, you're miserable, I'm miserable, yeah.
Speaker 1:
And so why can't a person that's not of the cloth just bless a building, a car or whatever? And I, if you are a person subscribed to the Royal Priesthood of Believers, as all of us here on this podcast do, then of course you would do that. But if you haven't experienced that, or if you part of your Christian tradition hasn't fully embraced what the Royal Priesthood of Believers means, then stuff like only a pastor or a priest or an ordained person can give communion, only a pastor or a priest can baptize a believer.
Speaker 2:
I just think it's like giving too much power and authority to mere people Like. You're a priest, but like am I?
Speaker 1:
It's not giving enough power to those who are not ordained, in a way, I think, because I think there is, it's definitely, authority. Christians have authority.
Speaker 2:
Right, but when you're not a pastor anymore? There's going to come a time when you're not a pastor anymore. Do you still have the same authority over people?
Speaker 1:
Okay, so no.
Speaker 2:
Right. So a priest like it's not like he's this, it's not like he's the king over the church. I mean we can. If we want to bless something, then we can ask God to bless it. Sure.
Speaker 1:
We don't need to go through the courts, so you don't need an intermediary. So I think that's right.
Speaker 2:
We don't need to go through somebody else. True, that's not.
Speaker 1:
I think there's a difference between needing an intermediary for blessing and then the other thing of having an authority, and I think that's the challenging part. I think what happens with a lot of evangelicals, as we sort of like anything Catholic is bad, we kind of just shove anything Catholic to the bad category and what you miss out on there. There is an authority that the church has, and so I think, understanding that your authority to bless your house does come from God, but his conduit of himself on earth is the church, and so you don't want to.
Speaker 2:
But I think there are some people that like worship what the priests say over what God says.
Speaker 1:
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that becomes a. That's the problem.
Speaker 2:
I'm gonna trust the priest over what my actual Bible says, or what.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think that's the frustrating mode. Any thoughts on just blessing in general?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, so there's. In the Catholic Church, apparently, there's two types of blessing. And then I don't know if he said which type of blessing this was for over the marriage, but I guess we can make up our minds. Blessings are categorized into two types invocative and constitutive. And an invocative blessing the minister implores the divine favor of God to grant some sort of spiritual or temporal good Without any change of condition, such as when a parent blesses a child, uh-huh. This blessing is also a recognition of God's goodness, and bestowing this blessing upon us, such as when we offer a blessing for our food at Mealtime. And a constitutive blessing, invoked by a bishop or priest or deacon, signifies the permanent Sanctification and dedication of a person or thing for some sacred purpose. Here the person or object takes on a sacred character. It would not be returned to non sacred or profane use. For example, when religious sisters or brothers profess final vows, they're blessed, indicating a permanent change in their lives. Wow okay, so I would If I were to guess. I mean, when you're blessing a marriage sounds sacred to me.
Speaker 2:
Sounds like you're approving of sin.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so so is this? Give me the two orgy. It's invocative and Const. What was this? A second? I?
Speaker 3:
have no idea, let's see. And constitutive, constitutive.
Speaker 1:
So I and so the invocative one is you're asking, it's like the parental, I'm blessing the child. I think that's what they're saying.
Speaker 2:
This is the the marriage one yeah so in his in this recent article he says ultimately, a blessing offers people a means to increase their trust in God right. The request for a blessing thus expresses in nurtures, openness to the transcendence, mercy and closeness to God in a thousand concrete Circumstances of life, which is no small thing in the world in which we live. So if you're gonna bless in this way a same-sex couple to as a means to increase their trust in God, then that means they're going to deepen. Your hope is that they deepen their relationship with God, in which means that eventually they're gonna come to a place where they're convicted of the relationship that was blessed in the first place.
Speaker 1:
Right yeah, so what like?
Speaker 2:
what is the point yeah?
Speaker 1:
I think it's okay. So here's why I don't want to always just go. Catholic Church is evil. Well, I'm not saying, and I'm not saying that either. However, I think it's very problematic. So here's what. Here's the problem with this. Is it everyone hearing this? Like we don't know what invocative versus constitutive means? And if you're going with an invocative blessing, it seems like to your point why do you need to make a statement that you can do this? So like, if a child comes up for a blessing, you don't go like, hey, I've you been sinning lately. Is there any darkness in your heart? You just bless the child right. And so if it's that, well then, if so, if, for example, every time you come up for a communion and you're not Catholic, you get a blessing like you. So if you're not cat, if you're not Catholic Meaning like you, you haven't been baptized in the Catholic Church, then you're not supposed to take communion. So you go up there and I Saw this actually at Cody's Cody's father-in-law's funeral, and not that we should make light of a funeral, but there was this moment.
Speaker 3:
Can I?
Speaker 1:
tell the story. Cody, cody, you back there, okay, all right, well, I'll tell the story. All right, so so so we're at this funeral and a guy that goes up, they have communion at every service, no matter what it is there's communion and so Means of grace, and so they go up for communion. It's like a thousand people at this funeral. It was amazing. It was a small town it was, it was standing remotely. So anyway, at the funeral which you, you, we all, we all went to, but we may have left earlier than it ended, and so at the end of it, they're all taking communion and this guy goes up for communion. And what if you haven't taken communion? Sometimes what the priest will do is so who put the, the host or the bread in your mouth for you? So you walk up to him, you go. And then you drink from the chalice, so like everybody drinks in the same chalice. He wipes it, turns it, gives it to the next boom and you just kind of go through it. That's that. That's how you do it in in in the Catholic Church. Well, this guy goes up and he's clearly not Catholic and then and he, the the priest, is wanting to put the bread in his mouth and he's not opening his mouth, and there's this like this awkward moment, because I don't think his English was all that good, because I don't, I don't think he was ain't from around her and he he was, you know, trying to do communion and then eventually he realized he wasn't Catholic and then he blessed him, and I think that's what we're talking about here With the blessing all right now I think, which an invocative blessing. It's strange to me, because what there's more from the Vatican. They wrote. Cardinal Fernandez said the declaration remains firm on the traditional doctrine of the church about marriage, not allowing any type of liturgical rite or blessing similar to liturgical rite that can create confusion, but it also explores the pastoral meaning of blessings in a way that opens the possibility of blessing couples in irregular situations, and same-sex couples, without officially validating their status are changing in any way the church's parental teaching on marriage. The church remains firm in teaching that marriage can be contracted only between one man and one woman. He said and continues to insist that rites and prayers that could create confusion about a marriage and another form of relationship are inadmissible. So I think this is the struggle is I have a feeling that not everybody's on the same page at the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3:
I don't think so. So in 2021? It says they were asked does the church have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex? They answered no Right. The church says the its answer regarding same-sex couples quote declares illicit any form of blessing that tends to acknowledge their unions as such Right. And it says that it does not and cannot bless sin, which is exactly what. Katie said Right. So then the question is since 2021, did the definition of blessing change or did the definition of sin change?
Speaker 1:
Something changed. Something changed. And that's the part where it seems confusing, because at least the article that was kind of came out the same day as the one you sent me. The guy was explaining it and I think to pacify the cardinals that are maybe on one of the conservative side, they're like this is an invocative blessing, much like the hey, god bless you. But that seems weird that you would make it about the same sex.
Speaker 2:
It just shows the lack of credibility that the Catholic Church has. This is what it shows. Yeah, listen, if you're not going to believe the Bible, if you're not going to trust and follow the Bible, then what are you doing? Get out of this role, dude.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I agree.
Speaker 1:
I think, and again and this is where it's being at a church where we have many people that struggle with same-sex attraction, and we totally love them and affirm them in their Christianity, not in their sexuality or their sexual preference or sin. I think that's what's hard and I think that what the church has struggled with and, to be fair, no one has really figured this out, especially with the sexual cultural revolution that's happening they're trying to be, I think, what happened. They're trying to receive people lovingly and, as I read a church history book recently so I'm totally enamored by Council of Trent they doubled down on the Catholic Church is not open to any other reality of salvation by grace, by means of faith, and they locked the church down, they kind of kept it medieval up until the mid 1900s, and so I think what's happened is like we don't want to do that again, and so they want to get on the right side of history, on the front end, as opposed to hold on to the doctrinal truths which are clearly communicated throughout the ages as morally right and wrong, and I think that's what's really hard.
Speaker 2:
Holding people accountable to sin is not loving them, right? Because?
Speaker 1:
I think and I think this is what they're saying what about a same set, not same a heterosexual relationship? I've got my baby mama here and I got my baby mama there and I just listened. Church, I need you to bless it? No, right, but I think that's what they're saying. And I've got my, or I've got my one family here and my other family here. I need you to bless that no, and. I know, and I think that's the struggle that we're facing, or at least the Catholic Church is facing is that they haven't brought clarity, and even in this I think they're trying to bring some clarity, but it created a whole, so it's trying to bring clarity hold up who's trying to bring clarity? So I think is the pope trying to the pope want to bring clarity. No and his cardinals came around behind him, said actually we don't really believe that. And Behold to traditional marriage. Blah, blah, blah. And I think the pope is wanting to take it down more progressive route, right and it comes down to the verse.
Speaker 2:
Am I trying to please man?
Speaker 1:
or am.
Speaker 2:
I trying to please God right. He's obviously not trying to please God, right?
Speaker 1:
And I think this is what I don't want to say. It's all about numbers, but you could argue they're like hey, listen, our art. We're dying, yeah, like we have been losing people, especially in the West, and In fact if you were to go to a Catholic Church, even here around Texas, you probably get an African missionary to Texas that can barely speak English. That's the the priest, the local parish priest, because they can't find anybody, because they, the Catholics, have sort of given up on. You're not having more young men wanting to be priests.
Speaker 2:
You're not wanting to raise a church, you're wanting to just raise. You're wanting to keep something going wanting to raise your own platform, and it's yeah.
Speaker 1:
It's just sad, it's yeah, it is sad, it's like.
Speaker 2:
It's like we have completely blurred the lines between Loving people versus calling out sin right, and I think this in the name of compassion which isn't even godly compassion. It's this worldly compassion that's like, suddenly, now. Now this worldly compassion is like Tra, like stomping on godly compassion right.
Speaker 1:
So I think the struggle is this it's is the world. You know we're called to evangelize the world, and I think if you were to ask the Pope, why are you doing this, his initial reason would be they need to see that God loves them, and his solution is therefore we're gonna we're gonna bless their sin so they see that they're loved by God, and I can appreciate that heart. However, one let's say, those people start attending Catholic Church and they start becoming they're like well, what's gonna prevent me from being? You need not only bless my Marriage with the invocative blessing, it needs to be a constitutive blessing, and so more and more people are gonna. There's gonna be a growing wave of that, and I think this is where the evangelical church could learn a lot from this. When we and I don't this is not a pronouncement of judgment on the evangelical church that everyone's got their own. But I think what happens when you don't bring clarity To what sin is and what sin isn't right. It makes it confusing. So one of my favorite professors, howard Hendrick, says he used to say a Mist in the pulpit is a fog in the pew. So when I'm not clear about what sin is and what sin is not, then what I? I'm making it your it's up to your own interpretation which, to be fair, for a long time evangelical world and probably for a long time the church history, you didn't have to worry about people going. You never talked about homosexuality because that was just like, like that was just sin. Everyone sort of knew that. But as sin became more Acceptable, normalized, then all of a sudden people started saying like well, why can't they? I mean, how is that really that bad and what would? What was Once seen as in Romans 1, same-sex couples or a same-sex Situations, was seen as actual judgment on a particular people, which is sort of wild to think about so this makes me just question what's next?
Speaker 2:
like what? What is the Catholic Church gonna norma, not normalized and like Except next? You know, are we like cuz? Back in the day, homosexuality was Illegal, like it was. I mean, it used to be like how we see pedophilia now, yes, okay, yeah, I think pedophilia next is?
Speaker 3:
is pedophilia gonna be the next?
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
That's why movies like Well, we want people, we want people that struggle with pedophilia to feel accepted and loved in the church too. So we're gonna start normalizing it and saying we're gonna bless you in this, this desire that you have, and Well, there's already the North American man Boy Love Association, the lobby Congress. All right, it's like it's already happening, and so the more and more we accept sin, just because culture has normalized it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and this because, when you talk, about go ahead, we're gonna say something.
Speaker 3:
Oh no, I was just. I was agreeing and that's literally what I was googling. I was googling blessings for transitions and there's literally a blessing for gender transitioning.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, like, what are we gonna start doing? Like is the Catholic Church gonna just start?
Speaker 1:
going. Maybe there are more than give hold on, give me the blessing for the transgender.
Speaker 3:
So look at this the first blessing refers to God as the transforming one. Hava mavera they're getting the Hebrew dude Jews are Crossing the, crossing over people, because we crossed over the Jordan River and the Canaan and whatever, and there's a bunch of you go to the Midrash and so you can, you.
Speaker 1:
You know what I mean Well, you know, is a dangerous thing in itself. I mean scripture to be whatever right, right, right people justify homosexuality in the Bible by David and Jonathan's relationship.
Speaker 2:
Well, this is a classic deconstruction.
Speaker 1:
So deconstruction and listen, there are some people that's come to faith or deconstruction, so I don't want to say it's just blanket, but for the most part deconstruction. What you're saying is like I can't trust what the people who have traditionally been teaching have said about what this means.
Speaker 3:
So we are two thousand years for two thousand years. I am throwing that out and I'm starting over from 2024 with what.
Speaker 1:
I with what my, I'm now gonna take my cultural lens, apply it to the Bible and then I'm now gonna read it and that it. That is always a problem, and then they would say, no, no, no, no, I'm going back to what Paul originally meant. The problem is when you're saying I'm going back to what Paul originally meant and then you're just negating every historian up until this point. You're then saying, no, I am Me and all the knowledge I have, and most of the people that are doing this aren't exactly super scholars. You usually white suburban moms who have nothing better to do and they just want to feel good. Anyway, what happens is you get to this place where you're like I want people to like me and my neighbor is doing something that's sinful and I feel like I need to accept them wholeheartedly for who they are and bless and the same thing, the Catholic Church, and bless their marriage as opposed to love, love my neighbor and then share the gospel with them, and you don't have to be a complete jerk about it but you do need to stand up for truth. I think that's what's happened. Is we because we don't do conflict very well at all?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we want to and and to be make everyone feel good. We want to make everybody feel good we and there's a line there is a line and we keep moving it right up keep scooting the line.
Speaker 1:
The second it starts upsetting people Right and like why so yeah, and so I think that the struggle that we have is because we don't. We were not allowed to have a Conversation where we disagree with somebody, and I think the conversation goes like this hey, I think that sin, I don't think that sin, and then you say, well, we agree to disagree, or or you go. The problem with that is you've redefined sin and so that makes it a problem for what Jesus died for. So did Jesus, and then you go. You're not Repentant, and that's why the homosexuality thing is a big deal is what we see. Homosexuality is the judgment in and of itself. Romans 1 says, like Because of the perversion of worshiping the created thing versus the God who is they, god gave people over to do things that not Not to be done, which is like men and women gave up a natural desire for another and men Gave into Perversity for men with men, women with women, and so that was so, I think, a lot of times, back in the 80s and 90s, aids was seen as God's judgment on Homosexuality, and I'm saying no, that's not God's judgment, homosexuality was God's judgment on. So, because that's what the Bible says and I think something, I think what they took it as is like no, you, you're pointing out that my sin caused this thing to happen and I'm like I'm not saying that. I'm saying that because you rejected God, he gave you over to your sin and so all the ramifications that come with that Come with that, and that's the natural order of things that God created in his design. I okay, anyway, I know that that seems like we're going way off on the tangent on this, but I think it's super important to say a call out to churches everywhere, even if you're not in our denomination, like hold fast to the word of God. It's unchanging, and it might cause us to fall out of favor with government, fall out of favor with Culture, and we might now be in the minority and then even be martyred, which I don't want to like. Sign up for martyrs.
Speaker 2:
But, but I think that's our home, like right, which I appreciate, that this is not where we live right, and I think this comes into like are we to be?
Speaker 1:
I Think the challenge then becomes what are we supposed to do in government? And I think this is the struggle that a lot of people. We're ambassadors for Christ representing another, another kingdom. This kingdom is in our own and we can give advice and we're putting government positions. We want to lead it as God would do it, on earth, as in heaven, but ultimately we don't put our hope in any government official, any government plan, because we know every government. Even when the Puritans try to put you know we're doing Christian everything. The problem is you have unsaved people then entering the government who are trying to implement Christian law and it's gonna break down at some point. Yeah and so that doesn't mean we give up on law, but what it does mean is that you've got to understand that the justice on this side of heaven is gonna be limited Because you have unredeemed people that are in governmental situations and don't have the Holy Spirit to help operate and guide.
Speaker 2:
I know we have been on a slippery slope for a long time. Yeah okay, slippery, slow. Sure, we are in a waterfall now, right, no longer on a slippery slope. Nobody's trying to hide anything, nobody's trying to to keep anything under the rug like we. We are just dangling in a waterfall. Sure, I will say, I will say before.
Speaker 1:
I know that. I know that it's all doom and gloom. There are some things that we can rejoice about, so, for example, one of the things that I think we were on an awful dark-sided Slope one was like racism, like slavery, jim Crow 1966, like 1964, things change and so that was a huge Win for Christianity, but and I don't, I don't think we give ourselves enough enough credit for that that the primary Drivers of civil rights and things was Christians. The problem is, is it left the Christian camp and then started become dominated by, like the LGBTQIA Coopted civil rights and took it to sin as opposed to human dignity, which is all about Pro-life movement would be in that camp of like we value the life of every human being.
Speaker 2:
Are we gonna talk about every single thing? I think this is the part of it.
Speaker 1:
It's like I think there's some things we don't want to just go like the world is completely Lost no, I'm saying when it comes to home, like the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, we are no longer on a slippery slippery.
Speaker 1:
We are straight up, straight up.
Speaker 2:
Floodgates are open, everything is is welcome, everything is okay and approved of. And what?
Speaker 1:
would you say, and I'd love for pastor Mo jumping. There is a counterculture that's rising up. That's not for that right and I think it's probably highlighted by Jordan Peterson. Like, I think Jordan I don't want to say like he's Christian by any stretch of the imagination, but he is like arguing for a Judeo-Christian worldview, adamantly outspoken, and it's his. I think he's cultivating a lot of young people, young men especially, to kind of jump on the bandwagon to say no to the crazy. So I think there is a counter cultural, as every anytime there's a movement, there's always a counter movement. And so I think you're seeing this happen as men are called to more like more traditional setting, even within marriages, you're seeing women embracing more a traditional role all across the board. I've never seen it quite like I've seen it.
Speaker 2:
So I'm not saying there's not a counter culture.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
I'm saying the latter has risen up and is like getting real out of hand 100, 100, 1000.
Speaker 2:
Like there's one of my one of my old neighbors she is super liberal Her one of her, her step sons, they they call Claire now.
Speaker 1:
Oh, wow. And she's like um, because he is Used to be Clyde.
Speaker 2:
No um his sorry. Anyways, so that's beyond the point, but she shared this article that you sent me.
Speaker 1:
Oh really.
Speaker 2:
And she shared it and she said this is amazing. What a great step in the right direction for the church. I've always loved this Pope Like this this is great.
Speaker 3:
What did you say to?
Speaker 2:
that I didn't what. What am I going to respond with Like?
Speaker 3:
why did she text you?
Speaker 2:
No, she didn't text me. She shared it on Facebook.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I thought she texted it to you.
Speaker 2:
I mean, if she sent it to me and asked me what my opinion is that I would have shared, but like she shared it on Facebook.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, I'm not going to like call it and be like this is ridiculous. Like so it's hard, it's hard to see this stuff. I can't.
Speaker 2:
There are so many people that are un-churched, right, okay, cause she's not a Christian, she's not, she's not a church person, but so many people are going to see this.
Speaker 1:
Is she a white suburban mom?
Speaker 2:
No, okay, cause they're going to see this she's a minority. And she's from Brazil.
Speaker 3:
Okay.
Speaker 2:
She's Brazilian, her family is actually Catholic but she left, like the Catholic belief and her main thing about with leaving the church was they don't accept homosexuality. That's funny.
Speaker 1:
And so now it's like.
Speaker 2:
Oh well, now that like, but like. I'm not saying her specifically. I'm saying there are so many people that are un-churched that are now going to start coming to church, which good. But also the only reason they're coming to church they're more welcoming to the idea of church is because the church is affirming sin.
Speaker 3:
Right.
Speaker 2:
So it's like it's like, okay, good that like more people that are un-churched are going to start coming to church, but like, what are they listening to? What are they hearing? Yeah, and this is where you know it's clearly not the Bible.
Speaker 1:
So like the independent Baptist King James. Only churches that would been hardcore on all sorts of things for all, for all time have are not affected by any of this, but us we would try and be. I mean, we've been more secret, sensitive, and so it affects us, because what happens, the world starts evangelizing us, and so that means we've got to do a really good job of being very clear, because we do want we do want whatever you're coming from to come into our church.
Speaker 3:
We just don't want our church to be.
Speaker 1:
We want to be clear about what Jesus says, what sin is, and I think that's the struggle. I think, if I were to pinpoint the struggle of the evangelical church right now, it's that we were not prepared for the entire culture shifting and that the culture evangelizing Christians as opposed to Christians evangelizing the culture, and I think that's if I'm just, I think that's my, I don't want to say fear, but that's the struggle I face every Sunday is I want to bring a clear understanding of what the gospel says about what sin is and what it's not. I want I want people that are not Christian to be offended by the gospel and not by a secondary thing. However the secondary things move into primary things, when it affects what sin is, and I think, when it's ignored. When it's ignored and I think that's the struggle I personally have is I'm like, when do I, you know, bring down? I guess you know for them that'd be the hammer oh my gosh, I'm out. You know, like you've offended me too much. When do I bring that up and when do I hold back and when is you know what's the appropriate time for that?
Speaker 3:
And I think, I think as soon as it comes out, because it would be cool for you to hear you get on stage, be like well, the Catholic church is blessing marriages. Just know, if you're attending Wolf's Branch Church, we're not going to bless you. Right, right, like for me to hear that back. Dang, something just happened. You just addressed it and I know where we stand.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and that's why I feel like, I feel yeah, so I think we you can't tiptoe yeah. Well, yeah, I'm not saying.
Speaker 2:
I want to tiptoe.
Speaker 1:
That would be cool. That would be cool, Like I think what we've done in the past is we it's not like you're going to what he said like three years ago. Sure, it's like something that just happened, and that's why I feel like the podcast ends up being really great spot for that, because we you know we did this.
Speaker 2:
Why can't you do it on the stage? Oh, I've done on the stage, remember I brought up? No, I know, but I'm saying, why would you? It just doesn't, I don't know.
Speaker 1:
I mean cool I love you guys, I think the struggle for me is is it relevant to the passage we're looking?
Speaker 3:
at.
Speaker 1:
And I don't wanna. It's like one thing that this is my pet peeve of Bible. Stuff is like you're in one verse, but you really wanna talk about this other thing. It reminds me of the North Carolina cape, something. What others gosh the serpentarium, you know, the one that Nate Bargatze talks about. You've ever seen this joke?
Speaker 2:
I know who you're talking about, so he talks about.
Speaker 1:
He goes to this serpentarium and like the first thing you show up you wanna see snakes. And it says like here's this anti-government thing. And he goes like, hey, I got some snakes, but I really wanna talk to you about this anti-government thing and it's like I came here for snakes, I came here to hear about the Bible, I came here to hear about Jesus, and you're wanting to talk about same sex marriage and I feel like there's a place for it and I feel like this is it. And I think this is helpful that we're. I'm not gonna go over the top just kind of like on a Sunday morning, but like I'm gonna stick it to the man which I don't have a problem doing.
Speaker 3:
If it's a recent event, I feel like something just happened.
Speaker 2:
Like people need to know where we stand on current events, Right and.
Speaker 1:
I think that's where this comes in. Yeah, I think that's where we're doing here. Clearly we're not blessing same sex marriage. Clearly we're wanting to stand for and I think we're gonna get to some of it when we talk about sexuality in Exodus. Honestly, in the third week of it, we're gonna get into.
Speaker 3:
But it's kind of like if there's like a big shooting, that just happened.
Speaker 1:
Right On Sunday. Yeah, that's true, that is true. Yeah, you would, you would you would.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I'd still love to go to Rome and check out I mean, they're gonna start losing money, obviously, but I'd still like to check out all those big buildings while they're still there the Catholic Well, they're gonna be museums, I mean.
Speaker 1:
I think, well, and this is what I'm like, look at all the church property Like will the Methodist church that went? Are they gonna be able to sustain Now? And this is the part where I go with, and this is the part where, for a long time, I've argued against taxing churches, because I'm like, no, you can't, you know, blah, blah, blah. But now I'm like, why not? Because what's gonna happen is the churches that it's just tech on that, just sex.
Speaker 3:
I'm sure other states, but in California churches get taxed, do they really? Yeah, yeah, it's a state thing. Yeah, oh, yeah, all right well okay, there you go.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and that's why you just mean to school.
Speaker 3:
Yes, you know what.
Speaker 1:
You know, I guess we still get taxed here because we pay taxes being renting this particular building, so we pay tax. Yeah, yeah so because, it's not Is there a way to avoid that? If the owner would just give us the property and then we bless them with a you know, I don't know, you know, like a service fee or something, then that could work for them With a constitutive blessing.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:
Nice, all right, hey, listen. Thanks so much for watching. We talked a lot about a lot of stuff. And make sure you like, share and subscribe, especially if you're like wondering, like where does the church stand on? Like same sex marriage and how should we like handle it and how should we articulate what our view is? And how should we love people that are that don't believe like us, cause they don't have the Holy spirit? How do we encounter people like that? And I think this is a great way to you know, introduce them to the podcast, help them bring clarity. We love people from all walks of life. We don't endorse sin, but we want all people to be saved. If you say you're without sin, then you're self deceived, but God is faithful and just. He will forgive you if you just simply come to him. That's the message that we want everyone to hear over and over again. So make sure you like, share, subscribe, tell all your friends about us. We'd love to hear from you and Katie. Any other final thoughts?
Speaker 2:
Babel is clear. I'm gonna say Asimov.
Speaker 1:
All right from our house to yours. Have it awesome. Let god be with you.
