Transcript
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And welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor Plex, and I'm so glad all of you are joining us.
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We're recording live here in Austin, texas, and joining me today is none other than Haley Hanks, our counselor.
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That we get the privilege of using her for her internship hours Is that the best way to put that?
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Yep Sounds about right and she has been crushing and killing it.
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So, I wanted you to walk through what we talked about on Sunday, which was the Sabbath, which is, you know, one thing that's really cool about that is Jesus is our Sabbath day rest.
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So it's not that we say thumbs down on Saturdays being like a holy day, but Jesus has freed us from like law in that you have to stop doing anything, but rather he gives you the gift of Sabbath, and I likened it and I'd love to hear your perspective on this like tithing.
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Did you know that in the Old Testament there's three types of tithing?
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So there's 10% that was supposed to be given to the.
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Levites and to the priests.
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Another 10% on top of that was given to national feast holidays like Passover, pentecost, feast of Booths, and then there was another 10% that was given every three years for the benefit of the poor.
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So essentially every year you were supposed to give 23 and a third percent, which when people think a tithe, they think 10%.
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Yeah, which is fine, right, and that's the point.
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It's like nobody tithes appropriately.
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So why are we putting that?
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on anybody Right.
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Why are we having some kind of rule?
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However, there is a benefit to giving.
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Yeah, Like when you give, and I don't know how your experiences with giving is, but for me, whenever I've given generously, like the Lord and I don't want to be prosperity gospel guy here, but the Lord has always rewarded that in some way, whether it was financial which that has happened many times, or it was in some other way where there was a great joy in giving.
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So I was wondering if you experienced that on the giving side first off.
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I'm certain that I have.
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However, I don't know if I can think of an exact example.
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But yes, I agree, and I don't think that's prosperity gospel, because you're not necessarily saying if you tithe, then you're going to instantly get a check in the mail.
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It's not always financial, but there is always reward, even if it's just that your faith is stretched and therefore you grow leaps and bounds in your relationship with God, and that's obviously a reward.
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I think it's hard for me and this is where it's really funny is I have gotten random checks in the mail.
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Yeah, well, yes, I think that's what's so wild.
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I have lived that out and so it's like I'm always like I don't want.
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I think what people do with prosperity gospel is they'll be like, hey, I got a check in the mail, you're going to get your check too, and that's not what I'm saying.
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But there is a real blessing that comes with being generous with wealth.
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Then, in the same way I think, and what I've always I've heard somewhere and then now I'm repeating it, it's like nah, it's mine, which was like God can do more with your 90% than you can do with your 100 or your 50% or your whatever than you can do with 100% or whatever the percentage.
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Okay, going back to taking that principle or concept with the Sabbath is I think we're free from like Saturdays as a Sabbath, and I think you're free from like we have no work on Sunday, but I think you miss out on the blessing of committing a day of rest and I think it's really hard to figure out what rest means, because when I think rest, I think sleeping, which I think is part of it.
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Yeah, but there's more than that, for sure.
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And talk to me about how you've seen, maybe I think, our society and I think what work does for us, it gives us a dopamine hit.
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Whenever you accomplish something Like I, get a dopamine rush.
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That I, you know, I checked it off, I put in a good day's work, I did a thing, and then you go to your phone and you get a like or you knock out your email or you there's always a stream to show and I completed that.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, sometimes there's a weird thing in my head that I want to finish a series right anyway have you?
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Have you seen that like the busyness of dopamine release in your head, kind of fueling someone's inability to be still, and then in turn that makes them more anxious?
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it's kind of a complicated question you're asking yeah.
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Yeah, I know.
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I'm asking you to give me all the answers.
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I know I feel like you have a pattern of asking like four questions in one I know I do.
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I was going to say one.
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This is on a side note.
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I have a tendency to do this.
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By the way, I have to go on a side note, but I just learned something I thought was so fascinating.
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This is Just know that off the bat.
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Unrelated to God or Jesus or your sermon or anything, but I just learned that you're right.
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You were saying like there's like a dopamine rush that people get from accomplishing something right, even like little things, even, like you said, getting a like on your post or whatever, but any kind of like accomplishment, people get a dopamine rush from that, except for there is evidence.
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I thought this was so interesting with a narcissist, so like and I'm not a scientist, I'm gonna I have no idea like I'm not gonna use the right words or the right terminology, but supposedly scientists, doctors, whatever can actually look at a brain on a brain scan and in a normal person.
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When an accomplishment or something like that happens, there's actually like it, like lights up like there's like a pathway that lights up, like the thing that just happened and like the dopamine rush, and you can like see it light up.
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Where, with a narcissist, there is no such light up Like they do not.
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They, they might do the accomplishment or get the thing, but there is no nothing lights up on the brain scan.
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That's wild.
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And so that leads people to believe that that's why a narcissist proceeds in life the way they do, because they're constantly trying to get that rush that other people get more easily and they can't ever quite get it, and so their whole life is like this quest to feel the dopamine rush, and then they're not really getting it.
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Wow, okay, I thought it was very interesting on that rabbit trail for just one second yeah, I did not come up with this theory.
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I know I love the theory, okay, so in a podcast, so what?
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I don't know how many people?
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Is there a percentage of people that are like are true narcissists?
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Do you know if there's there.
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I'm sure there is, but I don't know what it is because I feel like um every spouse diagnoses their spouse right being npd.
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It's just like it's, it's not even.
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It's now just npd yes, and I'm like yes and I.
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And now I eye roll whenever I hear the narcissist thing, because I get it so much of the accusations, yeah but now I that I heard this, I now at least have like.
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So do you like playing video games?
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Right.
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If they do, they're not a narcissist.
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I don't know, I love that.
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I don't know, that's just something I heard and thought was really interesting yeah.
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Okay, but but I do think there is something to that that if you're always on a quest for a dopamine hit of any kind, that's not restful.
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Right.
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And I think what happens whether you're a narcissist or a non-narcissist, which probably means you have some other disorder.
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Right.
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I think you are definitely needing the rush of stimulus.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And I think that's where, when I think back to the classic Shabbat or Sabbath, I think one of the things we make fun of is how how modern day Jews and you know historically Israelites, Jews would like make up all these rules so they could do all the normal things with, but not use electricity or actually work.
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Like, for example, you get a Gentile to come open your door for you, or like turn on the light switch, but you couldn't do it.
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It's sort of wild like that.
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Anyway.
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But I think the point is that, like you create these sort of rules to sort of safeguard your life in a way that you are turning off, you are going without power, you are going without whatever for the next 24 hours to decompress from all the dopamine inputs that you've been getting and I think the heart of it is really beautiful.
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And I think in our culture, where we're so stimulated all the time by all the different inputs, I mean like nobody works out without some sort of extra input.
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Nobody stands in a line without being constantly, I know I mean and myself included Like I do the same thing.
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I mean yeah, and nobody can drive without looking.
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I mean sorry, yes, I mean it is.
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It's true, though, and I have noticed that with myself, like I am, you know, not just like being on the phone and things like that, but currently being in school.
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You know, I'm in school and I'm interning and I still have a job.
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I have a normal job too, Um, and then I have kids, and so you know I'm stretched, which I know we all are, but I'm stretched a million different ways and I manage it all very well.
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But the way I manage it is that, like every minute of my day is accounted for on my calendar, every single minute, and I'm also oftentimes kind of doing two things at once, like I'm-.
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Makes you efficient.
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You know what I mean it does.
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But what I?
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Think it also does, I've noticed, is on the rare occasion that I do have the chance to just do nothing.
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It's almost like I've forgotten how to just do nothing, like my mind is still going.
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I'm like, okay, I'm going to force myself to just like you know whatever lay on the couch today or read a book, or but it doesn't feel that restful because I think I've forgotten how to to just rest.
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Oh yeah, I think, I think.
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I think you'll notice that you have this problem when you're sitting somewhere and every 15 seconds you look at your phone and there's nothing actually to look at and you're not wanting to do anything on it.
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It's just you can't help.
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But look at it.
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You know it's epidemic whenever you can't go to the bathroom without your phone.
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It's true.
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Well, I was reading something the other day that was talking about how, at one point, the thought of a family sitting down to watch a movie together, that doesn't necessarily seem like that's still screen time right.
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So at one point maybe that was frowned upon.
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It's like go do something else where you're talking or interacting or playing a game together or something.
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But it was saying like these days, actually that would be great if a family could literally or would just sit down and the whole family actually watch and enjoy and take in the movie.
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Because, nowadays, most people are like kind of watching the movie but like kind of scrolling on their phone, or like watching but also like texting or emailing, and so it's almost like we've forgotten how to even just watch a movie.
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Yeah, it's wild, you know and.
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I've thought about that.
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I'm like I do that, like I I think I do that when I'm watching a movie.
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I'm also kind of scrolling through Instagram or whatever.
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Yeah, taking multiple input at the same time because you know might as well knock this out.
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Why waste time just more?
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Yeah, I think one of the things that um and I guess this is like trying to train our children on is being bored.
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Have you kind of like the like?
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yes, when my son comes up to his daddy on board, it's like we have achieved it right, yes, finally, yeah, like that's good, it's, it's a good thing which means that we've you know, we turn the internet off at our house all the time, uh, for certain periods of time, and so you can play your video games or you can watch a show from this time to this time and outside of those times you can't, which causes, you know, there is, you know, gnashing of teeth and anger and rage and all that.
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But if you can overcome it, I think you can be much more a well-adjusted person if you're able to sustain that, because you're not allowing yourself be constantly fed thoughts all day long.
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I think that's what's so hard about that.
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So back to that like anxiety.
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Do you see anxiety being the product of or byproduct of restlessness?
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I don't know where you're needing multiple inputs.
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Yeah, I mean I know for a fact that for sure is.
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I just know that from learning things I've learned in school like there's absolutely a correlation between how people operate nowadays, like the busyness and social media and the screens and all of that and anxiety.
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I mean for sure there's a correlation, there's no question.
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Yeah, so, um, I think I don't know if we've talked about this before, but I think one of the things that I've been curious about, especially with kids, is when do you give your kid a smartphone?
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Like what?
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I feel like that's the thing that they already like.
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You know, these are the.
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This generation of children seems like the most stressed out suicidal like all stack on the things.
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Is it because they have a phone in their hands?
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That kind of just?
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Yeah, I think so.
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I mean yeah because, think about, I mean a phone.
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Yes, like what you were just saying.
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For one thing, it's information overload, right?
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I mean even my son and he's got a pretty locked down.
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I think we talked about this last time he's got a Bark phone.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so it's got all these parental like there's not a whole whole lot.
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He's got all these parental like there's not a whole whole lot he could.
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He's got no social media.
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Um, he does have access to the internet and he's about to be 15 yeah um, so he does have access to the internet and to youtube, but even that has, it's like there's only so many things he can look at.
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He can't look at many things on there, however, um, and this isn't a horribly bad thing, but like uh, so he's in florida with his dad right now.
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Yep.
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And he had heard that there's like a bunch of shark attacks happening recently, which there have been right, like I'm sure you've heard.
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Oh yeah, there's been like some shark.
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Well, I, because I again with the Bark phone, I get sent kind of everything that he's like Google searched Neat.
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If he like views videos, I get sent a notification of what he's viewing, and so I saw that he had been furiously Googling likelihood of shark attack, likelihood of death from a shark attack, shark attack videos.
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Have any teenagers died from shark attacks?
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Just all of these things.
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Well, it's kind of funny, but that's breeding anxiety right, yeah, wow.
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Like used to, no one would even be able to access that information.
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You just go to the beach and swim and you don't know the statistics on you don't know, you're yeah, wow.
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And then obviously, which my kid?
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doesn't have it.
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But with social media and comparing yourself to other people, did I tell you the time I was here last time about a kid I counsel?
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He's 17, I think, and he's got some issues with like, just like self-image, and he's actually a very handsome kid and for some reason he does not believe himself to be, self to be.
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But he was telling me about how there's, I guess, an app right now that a lot of his friends at school use, where you take a selfie and then the app.
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It basically, I guess there's like a standard for beauty, right, like measurements of like how far apart your eyes should be and the size your nose should be, and there's like certain measurements that mean that you have, like, the perfect face, and so this app lets you take a selfie and then that gives you, it grades you.
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So that's already really disheartening, right when you get your grade.
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But then the kids are getting on Tik TOK and everyone is like sharing their grades, and so then everyone is knowing, like who scored the highest on this app and who scored the lowest?
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And so I mean like it sounds silly to us as adults, but oh wow.
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Okay, all right, so man.
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So I think we can say thumbs down on social media and phone for you, I think we're all like on the same page, but for me, I think, also the daily rest of of um.
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I think I'm in the process.
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You know, I have a, an 11 year old, and we're just now getting to like let's learn how to do a devotional and it's challenging.
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Um cause he's not super excited about it yet Right, I have an 11-year-old yeah yeah, and it's like you know, maybe once a week we can get it, maybe like once every two weeks where I'm like we're going to do this and I kind of stick it through.
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But I think that rest mindset of starting off the day I always kind of say work from rest, not work for rest.
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And the reason.
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I've come to that conclusion is like when you look at the seven days of creation, god made man on the sixth day, and so day seven was like his first day, right?
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So he went from day zero to day one and his first day was rest, and then I guess his day two would have been the first day of the week, which is, you work from rest, not for rest.
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In the same way, when we come to Jesus, we now we're saved by grace, through faith, and now he is our Sabbath day rest, he is our rest.
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And so we work from the rest we have in Jesus, not so that we might one day make it to heaven and be all that we can, right?
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So I think that sort of mindset.
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So when I start the day for me and I'm trying to train this and best lessons in life are always caught, not taught, and so what I try and do is, like every day, the first thing I do is to spend 30 minutes or so ish in prayer with the Lord, where I'm just me and God, no phone, just a timer.
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Because as a person that's like I'm very much like 30 minutes is very difficult to do.
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And.
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I didn't get there by doing 30 minutes.
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I got there from like doing five minutes to six minutes to anyway.
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Um, but that for me, has been very healthy and helpful and I feel like my day is able to be processed and started and I'm able to get clarity on a lot of things just by starting the day with zero inputs.
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Right.
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I don't know if you have any regular rhythm like that or if there's anything that you've coached people on or counseled people on that said like, hey, your day starting with something I don't want to get to meditation sounds like yeah.
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But like when you focus on Jesus and prayer and that kind of thing.
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I think there's a real reality of strength in that.
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Any thoughts?
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Yeah, I mean I just was counseling someone yesterday and she's got you know so many different things that like issues and problems and things that she wants to address and that needs to be addressed, but currently, just due to some certain life circumstances, she's like.
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it's like okay, we got to get you to a place of calm before.
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Like all of these things you're bringing up are valid and actually really do need to be addressed, but like you are not in a place to be able to address any of them because you're not clear in your head, you're stressed, you're frazzled, you're like physically, you're worn down.
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Like we got to get you okay a basic level of okayness and rest essentially like, not just physical rest, but rest on the inside because you're not going to be effective at like tackling any of these things in your current state.
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I mean, that's not necessarily you're asking about like a you know a rhythm or like a routine for a quiet time.
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I would like to say that I start my day every morning with a quiet time.
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I don't I do a quiet time every day, but these days it kind of is like well, okay, today it's going to work at like three and tomorrow I'm going to do it in the evening.
00:18:49.013 --> 00:18:54.076
I'm not sure that's the best way to do it, because I actually do think there's something to be said for starting your day that way.
00:18:58.464 --> 00:19:03.652
For me, I have to do it before all the kids are around, because it's it's just I know, yeah, it's never gonna happen, yeah, which means I have to get up a little earlier and it's really hard, which means I have to go to bed earlier, which is really hard.
00:19:03.672 --> 00:19:30.171
Yes um, or I just like hey, this goes back to I'm gonna trust the lord that I'm gonna get the required amount of sleep that I need to function yeah, because I need to do this first off, and that was like a faith thing for me, like, oh, if that means that tomorrow I'm only gonna get like six hours or whatever, I know I this is so valuable that I'm gonna give that to the lord and just trust that he's gonna make up the rest yeah, which essentially is another way of tithing, right?
00:19:30.270 --> 00:19:33.924
I mean, it's the same concept, yeah um, I was, I had another direction.
00:19:33.944 --> 00:19:34.586
I was gonna go with that.
00:19:34.586 --> 00:19:36.692
Um, oh yeah, so.
00:19:36.692 --> 00:19:51.636
So when you think through people in anxious moments, one of the things I've counseled people is that whenever they're at a place of high anxiety is just stop, close the door, put your face.
00:19:51.636 --> 00:19:56.967
I tell them to physically get in a posture of worship or put their face on the ground.
00:19:56.987 --> 00:20:05.536
Yeah, and then just and I say, put their face on the ground, yeah, and then just and I put it say, put a timer on it just to let yourself worship God, or just hear from him.
00:20:05.536 --> 00:20:12.744
And I found that that to be when, anytime anyone's ever followed through on that advice, they always will text me, call me or whatever, and be like man.
00:20:12.744 --> 00:20:14.050
That was the most amazing experience.
00:20:14.050 --> 00:20:15.570
I thank you so much for that.
00:20:15.625 --> 00:20:15.865
Yeah.
00:20:15.986 --> 00:20:24.394
And I'm like why not just incorporate that reality into your every day, Because I feel like you'll be able to experience a joy there.
00:20:24.413 --> 00:20:28.955
That's really yeah, like the concept of just like I've got nothing, I'm on my face, I'm surrendered.
00:20:28.955 --> 00:20:30.346
Take that throughout the day.
00:20:30.346 --> 00:20:30.988
That's what you're saying.
00:20:31.087 --> 00:20:31.769
Yeah and um.
00:20:31.769 --> 00:20:35.555
Did you ever read John Gottman?
00:20:36.695 --> 00:20:37.758
I'm currently yes.
00:20:37.817 --> 00:20:39.000
Marriage Clinic yes, yes.
00:20:41.545 --> 00:20:42.556
I'm not really reading him.
00:20:42.556 --> 00:20:46.392
I'm listening to a lot of podcasts and videos.
00:20:46.392 --> 00:20:46.893
He's so good.
00:20:46.893 --> 00:20:48.698
He's not a Christian, but he's amazing.
00:20:50.046 --> 00:20:52.832
One of the things that he talks about withdrawal is one of the force horsemen.
00:20:52.832 --> 00:20:55.392
You need at some point.
00:20:55.392 --> 00:20:57.353
Withdrawal is like you stonewall in a relationship.
00:20:57.353 --> 00:21:01.776
There is a way, and I've called it a controlled withdrawal.
00:21:01.776 --> 00:21:14.214
I think that's what he actually calls it A controlled withdrawal where you hey, I'm in an argument with you, I'm getting emotionally flooded, and so, before I start to say stuff, that I know that I can't take back and you're going to remember.
00:21:14.214 --> 00:21:15.356
It's going to cause hurt and trauma and all that.
00:21:21.285 --> 00:21:28.095
I'm going to wave the white flag and say I need a controlled withdrawal and I'm going to go get before God and then try to work this relationship out from a place of rest as opposed to.
00:21:28.095 --> 00:21:33.414
I'm all frazzled with all the inputs you're throwing at me because we've been in this knockout dragout.
00:21:33.414 --> 00:21:43.351
I think if someone's hearing me, if you come to a place in your arguments I do this with Adrienne I'll be like I'm getting to that place where I cannot hear you anymore.
00:21:43.491 --> 00:21:50.396
It's like I need a controlled withdrawal, and that, for us, has really brought it to a place of.
00:21:50.396 --> 00:21:54.451
I can go back to a place of prayer and then re-engage from a place of like.
00:21:56.035 --> 00:22:04.210
Yeah, well, it goes back to what we were saying in the other podcast a second ago about like when your thoughts and your emotions are all just one blob.
00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:09.030
So I think what you're saying kind of is that like when you get too heated you're no longer really think.
00:22:09.030 --> 00:22:16.368
You're like thinking rational brain is not what's in charge, it's the emotional brain, or it's just kind of, like I said, a blob is the way.
00:22:16.409 --> 00:22:19.972
I picture it emotional brain, or it's just kind of like I said, a blob is the way I picture it.
00:22:19.972 --> 00:22:22.703
Yeah, so with your idea of this controlled withdrawal, it's not withdrawing in the bad sense of the word.
00:22:22.703 --> 00:22:37.951
It's like I need to go separate my thoughts from my emotions and let my emotions have some time to kind of simmer or process or whatever, and let my thoughts become more clear and not drowned out with my emotion, so that we can have an actual productive conversation.
00:22:38.011 --> 00:22:38.292
That's it.
00:22:38.292 --> 00:22:48.028
Yeah, I think I would love to challenge people just in that specifically to like, when you feel yourself getting to that you're about to go out of control emotionally, call a timeout.
00:22:48.028 --> 00:22:50.394
I need to control withdrawal because I need to.
00:22:50.394 --> 00:22:52.866
I need to come at this work from rest.
00:22:53.007 --> 00:23:00.458
Right and by communicating that you're not doing the unhealthy kind of withdrawal where you just kind of peace out and abdicate.
00:23:00.478 --> 00:23:01.880
That doesn't help that doesn't help.
