Transcript
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I'm your host, pastor plec, with a slew of guests on our show today.
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Uh, and we'll start with, uh, the sweet adrian plec and pull, how are you?
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I'm doing great feeling, really sweet and then also pastor holland from the east side.
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So glad to have you joining us.
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Thanks, chris.
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And then pablo and brie mot Side, so glad to have you joining us.
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Thanks, Chris.
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And then Pablo and Brie Mota and their son Zekiel joining us on the podcast.
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How are you guys doing?
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Good?
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All right, so we're talking questions.
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We had a question that came in from this past week, and so it's hot.
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This is a hot take question and I'm going to read it for you right off of the text.
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You know you can text us at 737-231-0605 and this person texted in what do I do if I'm in love with a married man who is in a sexless marriage?
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This is a great question and one that probably needs to be addressed, because I think that probably a lot of people have had this question.
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So let's just go right to our guest today to see what they would.
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You know, adrienne.
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Oh good.
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Any thoughts here I?
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have a lot of thoughts.
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What?
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do you think I'm assuming this is a woman what do you think this woman should do if she's in love with a married man who's in a sexless marriage?
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well, she needs to find a way to redirect her passion yeah but I have some questions as to like does it, does the marriage being sexless, make her feel like she?
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Is she the answer?
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The marital covenant is like void now.
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Like that's weird, Like that's irrelevant.
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Sexless marriage, abusive marriage I don't really care what marriage they're in, it's a married man.
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Right, and what makes you think that he'll have sex with you?
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Well, is she even asking that?
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That's a good point.
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Well, she's in love with him.
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You're suggesting is that he's the reason it's sexless?
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Well, I mean it takes two to tango, right?
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So I mean there might be a reason she does the.
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The other, the married woman, doesn't want to have sex with her husband.
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And so when you're sort for the greener, grass, right, yeah, you're just new set of problems, right?
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Okay, so let's go to uh.
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Pablo, what do you think?
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Or brie, what do you think?
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I think there's a lot of issues here.
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Okay, on both sides on this guy's part and on her part, right, um.
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But yeah, I feel like the like.
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I don't know why the sexless marriage was thrown in there well, probably because she thinks she has a relationship with this man who is married to somebody else, and she's probably thinking it's time for her to either move in or move out, and I think your advice at this point would be get out.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I think there is some type of relationship going on, because how does she know, oh, how clearly there has been some type of emotional something going on between these two for her to know so much.
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And it's not like you see someone and you fall in love, like that's something that takes time and getting to know someone.
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So it's like are you truly in love, are you lusting after a married man?
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like yeah, that's the other issue I'm having is like you can care about somebody, you can love somebody but not be in love with them.
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Well, I mean, this could be like a famous person, like I'm in love with that star on the screen and I'm assuming from all the tabloids they have no sex in their marriage and I could be the solution.
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Either way, to even engage.
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The thought of I'm in love like being in love is a to me, that's like it's a decision.
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Right, we talk about this, that the choice to love your spouse is a decision.
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It's not a feeling.
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And I can care about a lot of people.
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I can love a lot of people because I care about them, but that's different than being in love with them, which is a choice to like.
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So why?
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I don't know.
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I guess I'm like Shouldn't have gotten there.
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OK, pastor Han, how would you pastor this person through her current like feelings, to get her to a place of healing and wholeness?
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Yeah, the situation to me sounds like a situation that Satan has been working like, uh, in a lot of different ways.
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One sexless marriage.
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Satan's at work there, right, it's.
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It's God's desire for marriages to be sexually intimate and full of life and love, and so Satan's obviously been at work there.
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There's issues going on there.
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Then, you know, for this other woman to fall in love with this man, she's whether the marriage is sexless or not.
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If you're in love with a married man, that's you've been.
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You've not been led there by God, you know you've been led there by the lust of your flesh and the lies of the enemy.
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And then bringing up the sexless part of it is like a way to maybe justify or like does this give me the right?
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Ok, you know I'm in love with a married man and I know that's wrong in general, but he has this kind of miserable marriage Does that give me the right to kind of like, step in and insert myself into this relationship?
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And so, basically, it looks like the work of the enemy all throughout it, and so you need to counter that with the truth of God's word that says flee, sexual immorality.
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So what do you do if you're in love with a married man in a sexless marriage you flee.
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You flee sexual immorality.
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You confess to God and to someone else in church that you're having these um desires and temptations and struggles and you seek help um to move on and accept the reality that marriage is meant to be permanent and um the best thing for a sexless marriage is not to end that marriage, you know, and break it off with some affair, but rather for them to seek healing and help from their own church community.
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Yeah, and I think the pastor with this woman, I would say hey, there's a, there's a Bible verse for you, second Corinthians 10, five.
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We destroy arguments at every lofty opinion raised against knowledge of God, meaning you know that this is not of God.
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Yeah, and I know that there's a justification.
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I know that your heart is.
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You know, if God only knew my heart.
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Well, god does know your heart and it's wicked and deceitful above all things.
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And so, because all human hearts are like that, we can't trust our heart.
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That's why we have God's word, god's spirit and God's people.
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And God's spirit can be confusing sometimes, because you're like is that me or is that God?
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Is it me?
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God's word is very clear that this is it's sin to break up a marriage or, you know, kind of even have desires for this married man.
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Like that is a sinful desire, like that is not a oh, we're all tempted.
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No, that's a sinful desire.
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And the way you handle that in 2 Corinthians 10, 5 is take every thought captive to obey Christ.
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And so I think this part of like obeying Jesus, you have got to get into the war of your mind to take that thought captive and say I'm going to obey Jesus, even if it causes me personal pain and heartache, because I have such love that I have to mortify in my flesh because I know that Christ is worth it.
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Do we really believe that Jesus is enough?
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We sing the songs you're more than enough.
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We talk about Jesus and we ask people.
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We say this every Sunday.
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Your soul feeds on Jesus like your body feeds on bread.
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In the same way that your body physically needs food to sustain, you need Jesus to sustain, and if you replace Jesus with sexual immorality, it might satisfy momentarily but ends up making you starving and leads to death.
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So I think that'd be the simple answer there, and I do think this is something that let's just take beyond the situation, because I do feel like there are a lot of couples that are like they're wanting to justify their sin by the condition that they're in, and what I mean by that is listen, we're not ready to get married yet, but why should we be paying two rents?
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Why would we live being two rents?
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You know why.
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Why would we live apart from each other?
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Like that doesn't make any sense and what?
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What you're doing with that is you're saying I want to use sex for a financial gain what we normally call.
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That's prostitution.
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But but in this moment, like, like, like.
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Nobody wants to say that, but you're saying like, no, the reason that I need to live with this person before we're married is for financial to get ahead financially.
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And no one wants to say that's prostitution.
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But what is prostitution?
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Okay, except that if you're sleeping together, whether you're living together or not, it's sort of a different conversation living together or not.
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It's sort of a different conversation, but.
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But I guess what I'm saying is like if the only reason that you're living together you would say, like I believe that we need to be married and all that, I believe there's a right way to go, but right now we just can't afford it, then you're then becoming what is that?
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Is that true?
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yeah, I guess if you're saying you're abstinent, living separate and then now living together, you're not fine.
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But I don't know anyone that's sexually abstinent and then moves in and then starts having sex.
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No, no, right.
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But most people have sex first, right, right, and then they justify it by saying I need to pay rent, so therefore, why don't we They'll justify the sin that they're already entangled in with their financial benefits, yeah with circumstances, absolutely, and I think that's true for a lot of sins, for sure, yeah, but I think typically the excuse doesn't.
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Is prostitution too hard?
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No, no, it's fine, but it's just like it's silly, because sex is a present both ways.
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So it's not like you're, it's not like the money.
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Right, you're using the person for financial gain, which is weird.
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But you're using the person, whether there's financial gain or not.
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Sure, but I guess what I'm saying.
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So you're justifying the justification, you're a victim of the sex now because of you need the rent.
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I need the rent, right.
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That's like a passive prostitution, sure Fine.
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It's like there's nothing I can do.
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My point is your sin is following the circum.
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I'm sorry.
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The circumcise is behind, it's dragging behind the sin Right, and so the sin's there, and now you're trying to justify it with circumstance.
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It's not usually, I think, the circumstance that then.
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Right, I think there's a non-intentionality, right.
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So the intentionality is like I want to be in relation with this person.
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Oh, I love being in relation with this person.
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Oh man, oops, we had sex.
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Okay, well, you know, it's really hard to not have sex.
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We're already having sex.
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We might move in because it's cheaper.
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I think that's where that eventually goes.
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But that's like an accidental way to do your life.
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It's not without intentionality.
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And then all of a sudden you find yourself using the reason it's cheaper, which really cheapens the whole relationship, I think that's the story.
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I agree, and I think, even going back to our example, like, say, the man in this sexless marriage decides to end the marriage, right, okay.
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And so now and say it's a biblical divorce, we'll just go that far.
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Let's go that far.
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Let's say that.
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Okay, so the man is now out of his marriage.
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It was a biblical divorce.
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This woman is ready to come in.
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I guess that's where I would say you're a fool if you think that you can enter in relationship with this man, even though relationship is not sin.
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You're crazy if you think it's going to be without most of the issues that he probably had in his last relationship A and B, without issue.
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From your past experiences it's like you're completely crazy if you think that this is whatever chemistry and connection you have today is going to just only get more positive and more committed.
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And sin makes us crazy, more positive and more committed.
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And sin makes us crazy Like what you were saying completely crazy is not like whoever sent in this question like you're some unique crazy person.
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Like we all have this craziness that we start, we get into, like have some sinful desire and we start fantasizing about it, not even exclusive to just like lust and sexual stuff, but like some kind of selfish thing that we get this idea, this vision in our head about and then we start looking for reasons to justify it.
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And so sin makes you crazy.
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And this sounds like one of those situations where it's just like oh man, I'm in love, he's unhappy, wouldn't it just be better for everyone?
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And you start going down this path of trying to justify it because, well, it's a sexless marriage and we're in love, and dah, dah, dah, dah.
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But if you're able to just actually step back from the situation and just deal with it in I don't know the strict terms of like what God wants for you in this is very clear Leave it alone, move on.
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You know, like that man made a commitment, vowed until death, do us part.
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You know like I think that's why it's really hard, and I think this is where you know the dynamics of men and women, friendships and connections.
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It's like at some point, I'm sure this was a very pure relationship of friendship type thing and somehow it crossed the line, like, somehow it went from oh, hey, hey, how are you doing?
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Oh, it's good to see you, you know, in passing to a conversation that somehow talked about his sex life.
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I don't like, how do you get there with, uh, as a married man, with another woman?
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Like that is that should be never talked about in.
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Like just, oh, you know, you're thrown around.
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Here's how my sex life is going.
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You know, it'd be really great if I had some more sex.
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Oh, I wish I could fulfill that for you.
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Like, I think, is that how that goes?
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I mean, how did, how did those conversations even get to that point?
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yeah, well, I think, after, after, uh, having been in positions where I'm totally like, blinded by a female's intentions toward me, but then Bree points them out, it's like a little bit easier to see things like that now.
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But I think that and look, if you're the person that's saying this question like I'm not saying this is you, but that a lot of times this is probably what's happened is that a female has a special interest in a guy.
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She finds him attractive, she thinks he's cool, and all along, like maybe I don't know if it was intentional or not, but that relationship starts.
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And I think if you're that person, that boundary has already been crossed the moment that you start that relationship Right, person, that boundary has already been crossed the moment that you start that relationship Right, because you know that you have certain feelings toward that person that shouldn't be there, that you've already send in your head and now you're taking action, and so you know not to say that that that's what this person did, but just to say that even you know, starting that relationship is crossing a boundary that shouldn't have been crossed.
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Yeah, definitely, um, and how it unravels from that point on is you know?
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well, let's talk about that.
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How, what kind of boundaries should we have as men and women?
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Uh, married men and women?
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Uh, and I think I'm assuming that this woman is single.
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That's where it gets a little bit confusing well, and one thing I was going to say before, that is I I don't necessarily think I think that the information of a sexless marriage can come off in a lot of environments.
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I don't think it's not necessarily a one-on-one conversation, so I guess this is where I'm like it's.
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Also, I'd be curious what the context of their friendship is.
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You know, because you're in groups of friends with people making jokes or comments all the time and you can have, you can learn information about people and what's going on, and it might not necessarily been like I haven't had sex Right.
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I mean that's kind of a common like a person that's in a marriage where there is no sex is probably, and if they're open, an open person, they're making jokes about it, they're making comments about it, like it doesn't necessarily have to be this intimate conversation.
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Okay, and so I guess that that's where.
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So I guess in my mind, this friendship isn't necessarily like.
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This goes back to what I said at the beginning of her phraseology of I'm in love, I'm like man.
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That's to me.
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That's the problem it's like is the co-ed relationship to me is I don't know, that's just my view.
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I don't necessarily think that's the problem.
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The problem is this is a she's chosen a mindset to see this man in.
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That is a choice, like she could decide to care about him and she could decide to be pro his marriage, but she's choosing not to be pro his marriage and not and care about him in the way that, ultimately, would be the best thing for him.
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Instead, she's choosing to to selfishly desire to fulfill something in him that would actually be to his detriment and to her detriment.
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And she's choosing a narrative, a context of which to view the relationship where she's in love, like she's not just I'm not, I like this guy, I enjoy this guy, I care about this guy, like, I'm in love with him, like, like how do you move?
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that you don't, don't go there Like, be on, be in love.
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And if you can't unbe in love, then then flee, okay, fine, but like or just choose to unbe in love, or choose to love him, which means be pro free for his marriage, exactly.
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Like Hebrews 13, four let marriage be held in honor among all.
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So like number one, that, like that's you gotta be your personal commitment.
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As a Christian, I'm going to honor marriage and I want him to honor his marriage Right.
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And then it says and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.
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So you gotta know, like if this person who's sending this in is a Christian, you gotta know you're thinking about doing something that brings about the judgment of God.
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And if you're really considering that, you got to consider are you really a Christian?
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And if so, repent from that desire, not just from the action, but repent from the desire and humble yourself before God and ask him to help you hold marriage and honor.
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Yeah, and I think if you're at this point where you haven't gone through with it yet, you're at a I'm not saying great place, but you're at a better place.
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How about that Then, if you had?
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Yeah, so this is a great time to bring in church leadership.
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This is a great time to say like, hey, I am at this place of vulnerability in my own heart.
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I know I'm about to go down a dark path.
00:18:58.347 --> 00:19:00.365
Yeah, speak truth into my life.
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Pray the gospel over me, ask the Holy Spirit to give you the courage and the accountability structure that you need.
00:19:07.915 --> 00:19:16.871
That's why community is such a powerful, takes such a powerful part in somebody's life, and I think also if for the person with the question.
00:19:16.891 --> 00:19:33.780
I think one thing that I always have to do in my life, whether it's like an area of temptation like this or in my parenting, my huge like I don't want to go home, in 45 minutes I just don't, I would rather do literally anything else.
00:19:33.780 --> 00:19:38.460
Okay, and I'm like so, my, so it's not Adrian, like confess, you don't want to go home.
00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:43.247
It's like no, I'm praying to God for the desire to engage.
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I'm praying to God for the desire for the energy to go engage and to parent and to hold the kids accountable to the things like and and so.
00:19:52.615 --> 00:20:04.888
In this, in the context of this temptation, I'm praying to God that God would give me a desire for this man, the health of this man's marriage, cause clearly, I mean, it doesn't sound like she's got that right.
00:20:04.949 --> 00:20:26.852
She's kind of hopeful that the marriage, like, is kind of done and so I'm like, so, if you're so, focus on, like, if God could change your heart and you could become for his marriage and for what's best for him and for you, then, like that, ultimately that's more effective than this quote, unquote fleeing, which I kind of.
00:20:27.161 --> 00:20:35.869
I think fleeing is biblical and I don't want to make fun of it, but there is kind of this like I'm going to put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and just going to pretend like this doesn't exist and I'm just going to run away from it.
00:20:35.869 --> 00:20:42.905
But it's always kind of on this back burner as this option that you're either actively running away from, but maybe that's sitting there.
00:20:42.905 --> 00:20:50.836
And what would be to me what's healthier is to say, man, like, completely kind of what you were saying, holland, like, undo that desire that I have.
00:20:50.836 --> 00:21:07.393
So, god, like, give me a desire for what would be healthy and honoring to you, and in the meantime I'm going to take actions that are going to help me align with that desire and that then now you have this redeemed friendship, where that feels good.
00:21:08.259 --> 00:21:09.103
I love what I think.
00:21:09.103 --> 00:21:11.269
It's not that she loves him too much.
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She loves him too little, Because if she really loved him she would say I want she would challenge him because she would know and granted, it's hard to know this but you love him too little because you want his affections over what is best for him.
00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:32.359
Right, and what is best for him is marriage, the way God designed it, and for them to have sex within their marriage Absolutely.
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:50.872
And so by loving him more, you would say God, please help them have sex in their marriage, Ignite a fire and chemistry within them and encourage that sort of behavior, as opposed to the selfish thing to love him less, to love yourself more is to flirt or whatever.
00:21:50.872 --> 00:21:52.385
It is where you steal affection away.
00:21:52.385 --> 00:21:56.019
So maybe he'll want me more, and I don't know if she's doing that.
00:21:56.300 --> 00:21:57.444
No, but that's exactly it.
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And so if she could get to a place where she could care about him enough to want the things of God for him, then to me there's a I don't know.
00:22:06.702 --> 00:22:09.741
To me that's like that's the ultimate win, because then you're not.
00:22:09.741 --> 00:22:23.131
It's not like you're trying to white knuckle this resistance to temptation, but instead you're actually repenting of a desire that was ungodly and changing it into a desire that is godly, which we're having to do that with.
00:22:23.131 --> 00:22:30.323
A lot Like parenting is just one example of, I mean, like a work ethic, like choosing to work hard at a job that you're sick of and that you're tired of.
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And you have cruddy people to work with and for.
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Right, and so it's arguably sinful to kind of check out and not try.
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I mean, god makes it very clear we're supposed to work unto the Lord and so I'm like, so we're going to pray for that desire to change, not just try to like, resist the temptation to be lazy.
00:22:49.788 --> 00:22:53.109
So I think there's like and your actions have to follow.
00:22:53.109 --> 00:23:00.050
So there is, it is twofold, but I just feel Like.
00:23:00.151 --> 00:23:19.786
I think in all in all of my like Christian, like they wouldn't have to be Christian, but in all of our like couple friendships and relationships, like that's one of the reasons that I'm always like, mindfully prayerful of, like of my girlfriends and of their marriages and and the men that we are friends with.
00:23:19.786 --> 00:23:58.535
It's like if you're praying and you're disciplined about like, truly desiring the things of God, yeah, then your mind is not caught up in, you get stopped long before you're down this road of inappropriate crossing of boundary things, because you want the things of God for them and you care about them, and so yeah, I want to go back to what Holland said with just like a misordered love or you don't love them enough, like, let's talk about like in, just like not this particular situation, but like two single people love each other and they would say I just love them so much I got to have.
