Transcript
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
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I am your host, pastor plec, and joining me in studio today is none other than suzanne baldwin, who is gonna uh, no relation to like steven baldwin, right or alec baldwin.
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No, no relation to the actors or the piano, unfortunately.
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Man, because that could have gotten us somewhere.
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Yeah, it could have, all right.
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Well, hey, I'm glad you're here, even without any fanfare, and we're talking about singleness today, and this is something that you're passionate about, as you are a professional single person.
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I like to say intentional.
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Intentional single person.
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Intentional single person.
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No one is paying me to actually be single.
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That's actually a good point.
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If they were, I might be even happier about being single.
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Yeah, would you?
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ever get paid to be single.
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I don't think so yeah.
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Okay, All right, We'll talk about that, All right.
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So, really, what we want to kind of get to, or are you single for a reason?
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I'm just saying I think that's kind of what happens.
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So let's just talk real quick, let's go to um different types of single people, Cause I think we talked about this pre-show like there's, there's a reality of like it's not just when I think single people and this is probably how most many people in church think of single people I think of 20-somethings who just graduated from college or high school and they're like now in the church and they're like, you know, dilly-eyed, you know, just kind of trying to figure out life.
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But that's not the only kind of singles that we have.
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Correct.
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So let's talk about that.
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What kind do we have?
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I?
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think that's the only kind of singles that generally evangelical churches tend to think about and prioritize and prioritize outside of, like a divorce care or grief care kind of ministry right but, yes, so different types of single people.
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You have the young people like you just spoke about yep, probably never been married, but you have people that are my age, over 40, that are also single, never been married, which you know.
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We're different ages.
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You have divorced people.
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You have divorced single parents.
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You have single parents never been married.
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You have widows and widowers and you have people that will show up on Sunday mornings by themselves, but they might actually be married, but their spouse doesn't go to church.
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Right.
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So I think they kind of fall in the bucket of single people for the time being as well.
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Okay, oh yeah, I definitely I agree with that.
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So tell me about, like, um, how?
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One thing I've noticed about Austin and I don't think this is like I'm making it up I think 50% of Austin is single, so you're definitely going to be if you're in the city of Austin, if you want to reach the city of Austin, you've got to be thinking about single people, yes, and so why do you think most churches don't.
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I think it's a box to check off for most churches and I think a lot of leadership are people that have been married from a very young age.
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So that's why I think that in their mind they know, okay, well, I got married right out of college or I got married right out of seminary or right out of grad school kind of early 20s and since that was their path, they kind of know that there's a bucket of people in that path Right, and many churches are set on life stages, so, like life groups and Sunday schools and whatnot are divided up how old are you, how old are your kids?
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You know what stage of life are you in, and that's you know.
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Some more conventional denominations just do that as part of their curriculum and then sometimes it's just easier because that's how you divide people up.
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Right, okay, that's fair, and I actually looked it up it's 56% of the population is single, so only 44% of the population in Austin is married, and so that should make us me, as a pastor, go crud.
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There's a whole portion of the population that, if we're not intentional about, we might miss, and so I think that's that's what, that's what makes this conversation all the more, uh, important.
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Okay, so let's talk about this then.
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Um, how can we be and I think one of the things you've mentioned beforehand how do we, how do we get and when it comes to messaging to make single people feel more comfortable, yeah.
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So sometimes it's just using certain words that you're meaning one thing but someone may be sensitive about it.
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So an example could be our church doesn't do this, but many churches have a family-friendly service and the intention there, I think, is for it to be an all-ages service.
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But they just say family-friendly.
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But as a single person I might go well, I don't have a family or my family doesn't live here, my parents live far away.
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I mean, as weird as that sounds that word, when the intention wasn't meant to be, we're talking about family stuff, but the word family so I totally.
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I was a single person all the way through my twenties into my thirties.
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I got married at 34.
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And so whenever I saw something blank family church I was like, oh, that church isn't for me, yeah.
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So anytime the word family was thrown around, I was automatically out.
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So I totally understand the baggage that that word carries.
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As a single person, because it can feel like, oh, that's not, like it's going to be weird if I walk in there without a family, even though what you mean is even what those churches, what they meant, was in, it's still hard for me.
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If I see a family church today, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm welcome there if I bring my family, but if I don't bring my family, then I'm not welcome there.
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What they mean is we are like a family, it's like all of us make up a family.
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But because the language is a little bit skewed, it's a little wild there, so it's challenging.
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So I appreciate that distinction and why that makes it so difficult.
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So even naming the church family church, I think, puts you in a you're only going to reach the 44%.
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Yeah, and I mean I love families, I'm a part of a family, Right, I would like one day to have some sort of a nuclear family of my own.
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So the thing is, a lot of single people don't dislike families, but you feel a little left out when it's just yay, family, family, family like.
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But all the time how about?
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uh, a lot of times we say, hey, we're family believers.
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Does that mess with you?
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no okay, that's okay, no okay because that's, that's inclusive of kind of everyone and I think when it's in context of like you're speaking to it, yeah yeah, or even if it's hey, we're a family, we, we, we are a family.
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All right.
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Another like hot button messaging is a meal train.
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Meal trains are very family focused and, as weird as it sounds, it's great that we can care for people, but single people get left out of meal trains or when they've had issues.
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It doesn't take off and so strange things like that.
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What?
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do you mean?
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So how, let's say, let's go down the meal train route.
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So how, let's say, let's go down the meal train route.
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So I just let's say if you were in the hospital or something and then, um, you get home and then I don't know.
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I guess that's probably the being a single person in my 30s, you know granted, I didn't cook for myself ever I kind of ate mc, ate, mcdonald's, like my entire life, which don't judge me but like I think that gets a little bit hard, because when I think of what you need a meal train for is someone's preparing food for somebody else, whereas when you're a single person, you're probably providing food for yourself, but you're saying that you would feel left out if someone didn't think through hey, I need to bring you food.
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Yeah.
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Or just like I need to bring you food, yeah.
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Or just like I don't tend to participate because, yeah, because it's just me.
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But I have seen a couple times when these have popped up for like a single person, that people don't sign up, and so there's.
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I feel like there's some things that are not intentionally might be hurtful to single people in the community.
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That kind of come off that way, that's kind of awkward.
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Because I know when.
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Yeah, it is awkward.
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So if you're saying a single person has a meal train out there, it's like crickets on that one, but somebody that already has a family and Do you think that's a single thing or a well-connected thing?
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Because I feel like people that have a myriad of friends, they don't have a problem getting a meal train, which is probably the opposite, people who actually need one.
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Probably a little of both.
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Yeah, probably a little of both, and I don't know and I'm not getting down on the meal train and the care industry.
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No, no but it's a.
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Thing.
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But, it's another area that sometimes you just feel left out, like the word family can help make you feel left out and sometimes, even in this, sometimes you feel a little left out and you know maybe, maybe the meal train isn't like the solve for them, but maybe it's brainstorming with the care committee like is there a better way to care for people that maybe that don't have like a big group of people, I don't know, but it's just there's, or like birthday parties or housewarming somethings or whatever those things are, because usually with married people you've got a bit gender reveal party and a baby shower and a whatever you know, and so um, well, so on that note.
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I'll tell you what.
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When I turned 40, I threw myself a giant party.
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Yeah.
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And I made myself a gift list on Amazon, sorry, and I got a DJ and a photographer Way to go.
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And basically I kind of had my own wedding reception without a wedding.
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Hey, that's awesome and my brother and ex-sister-in-law got me my Powerade mixer because I wanted that, but the thing was I had to be really intentional.
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I love that.
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Because you're talking about.
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There are a lot of life stages that people that are singles especially singles never been married.
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It gets tough because you want to rally around your friends but then when you have the next group go through it and you're still kind of sitting there going hi, I'm still out here.
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Our culture, yes, has a lot of celebrations that fall into life stages.
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Okay.
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So I think this is where I cause I love this is what I love about you Cause this is rare, I think where you felt a need, you self advocated and then made it happen.
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And I don happen and I don't feel bad for you that you threw your own party.
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I think that's exactly what you should have done.
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If there was more of a larger community group that was dedicated to seeing a 40th birthday party, it would probably be part of the normal flow of life where, hey, it's your 40th birthday, oh my gosh, we need to do something.
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Where, hey, it's your 40th birthday, oh my gosh, we need to do something.
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So I think that should be a part of any sort of community's understanding of turning 40, or I'm about to turn 50 here soon, and that should be something that everyone should be excited.
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When I turn 50, I want everyone at my party.
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I think it should be single, married, whatever.
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That should be sort of a big deal, and so I think you're right.
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I think it should be single, married, whatever.
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That should be sort of a big deal, and so I think you're right.
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I think there is a reality that within the community of as a whole really speaking into just people.
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I don't know if that's a single thing, but it's definitely something a single person feels when they don't have somebody throwing it for them because they don't have a spouse who is obligated in a sense, to throw.
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It's my job here to throw this party Like.
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I think that's a big deal.
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Well, and advocating, and this is not necessarily something that the church would do, but I think, just talking from my experience as a single person and just kind of how, that has affected me and you're right, I've had to be proactive in some things.
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And when I was in my early 30s, you know I was praying about this.
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So I I mean in a nutshell, I grew up in the church.
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I got baptized when I was eight years old.
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I've been a Christian for a very long time and you know I went to Baylor and my parents expected me to get an MRS degree and you know I didn't.
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But I've had some really cool jobs and I've been able to do some really great things.
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But when I was a little over 30 I was praying about it and you know I felt like God said take your life off of hold.
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And I was reading this book and it had a part of the poem about, you know, the road less traveled and really God.
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God was like you're going to go down that road but, you're going to have a great time, and I feel and I've had people in this church and other friends talk about we don't hear enough people that have interesting lives as single people, that they don't talk about it.
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So that's partially why I wanted to chat with you today is that I would love for the church to be able to, you know, celebrate people that maybe have taken a different path.
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Yeah.
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But it's a good path.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It's one that Jesus walked and one that Paul walked, and pretty much a lot of our spiritual forefathers walked, yeah, yeah, okay.
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So let's get, let's get, let's take down this, this not take down.
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Let's go down this road of how can we be more welcoming of single people.
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Well, a big part of it, like on Sunday morning, and I think a lot of it is on Sunday morning is just people that are sitting by themselves.
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I do have a friend that I usually sit with now and I know a few other single people and they usually have a friend.
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Or I usually sit with now and I know a few other single people and they usually have a friend or two they sit with.
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But before that I kind of settled into that routine.
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It was a little daunting to come on Sunday mornings and be like okay, I'm by myself Now.
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I've been at the church long enough that I've been in a couple, you know a couple of community groups and I know quite a few people and couples and most of them I could like tag on and like sit with them now.
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But when I didn't know anybody and I started during COVID, so that was even harder so then when we came back people knew each other but then, like you, didn't know who didn't know anybody.
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So I heard this lady talking on a podcast that she's very intentional about building friendships in the church and her family splits up and doesn't even sit together on Sunday mornings, and she said that was very controversial.
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She wrote an article for Christianity Today and everybody was freaking out that she wouldn't sit by her husband and her children on Sunday mornings.
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But she said you know, we're together all week, so Sunday mornings we split up, look for people by themselves, we go, sit with them, we welcome them and then of course, we go to lunch and go home with our families, but we want to be part of the bigger family the church family.
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Yeah, I love that.
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I think that's definitely a specific calling on her and maybe people even at our church.
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But I know for a lot of families one of the things that they're wrestling with is how to lead your wife, how to show up and, hey, we're going to worship together and that's a big deal.
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But I love that, the missional aspect.
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So there's like a whenever you're kind of looking at a church, I always kind of think there's three types of people in church.
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And there's the people in the infirmary, those people they need the church to be a hospital.
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Then there's people that come to church and they're like they don't know, they're learning and they're looking to be trained up.
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And then there's people that are missional and they're like I'm here because I know that there are people who are far from God or somebody who needs ministry and they're there to do the work of ministry in the service, with a ministry of presence, which is exactly what that is.
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So, depending on where you are at, that would kind of make different areas, different aspects of what you're needing, and so I think that's a huge blessing but to understand where you are specifically and how you're going to take part in the body of Christ, not to consume but to contribute, and so that might be a way is like I'm going to intentionally sit by myself so that I can go and find somebody sitting alone.
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That's a great evangelistic tool and I think it's a wonderful opportunity, but at the same time, I wouldn't recommend it for everybody because there might be, you know, sitting in church together might be the only time you're not arguing.
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Yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying, everybody should like fruit basket turnover.
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But I don't know, once a month, maybe a challenge to do it, or if you know you have the gift of hospitality and you don't necessarily want to be in the kitchen or do.
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This is sort of hospitality.
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You're welcoming people in, you know and um, you know I even work at the welcome center and you never really know are people together or they like we don't even really ask about and I and I don't know if that's an awkward to ask about that, about their miracle status, but yeah you know, we don't really have a touch point for someone to raise their hand, even, and say, I'm a single person.
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I'm single, where can I plug in or who do I talk to?
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Like that's what on my improvement list.
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Yeah, yeah, where do single people go?
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All right, I like that.
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I like that.
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Okay, let's talk about how are you going to move us from single safe or single safe which I think you told me before that's what you feel like we are to single friendly, and I think that would be again if I want to see 56% more of the population have opportunities to come to faith in Christ.
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We should be thinking like that.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So first off, I guess how are we single safe?
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Maybe I need like, what are the levels of single like churches?
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I don't even know it's a thing, but I'm glad that we're talking about it.
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So I made a list of some things that I really think that our church is doing well and then some areas of improvement.
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So maybe these are like baby steps.
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Here we go.
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This is going to be some shocker.
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I've not read this list ahead of time.
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You'll get actual reaction.
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Actual reaction from Chris.
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Okay, so we're doing good.
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I think the preaching has been, and is, very thoughtful and acknowledges singles when couples and family ideas are presented.
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So I know you're very intentional about that and the others that are up front do that, and that's good and that's not normal.
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And I think that might come from my experience as a single person 20s through 30s, of really kind of like I needed to hear that Because I'm like where are my single people at and I kind of will go for that, and and then I'll say you've been in the toxic relationship six times yeah, and that's kind of a fun experience and it doesn't have to be like even coverage or apples for apple.
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It's just acknowledging they're in the room and that's fine.
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I mean, sometimes you'll go there and like that, but sometimes it's just like, oh, and I, I see you, single people yeah that's all you have to do, okay, which is not hard so yeah, um, so what do you mean?
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because I think that's something to talk about.
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So when I'm like, hey, we're talking about marriage, hey, listen, single people, thank you just for listening to this, I'm yeah, marriage people first, I think that's.
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I think that's all you have to do.
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Okay, so, and you do it.
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So I'm saying this is a good thing yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that's helpful um the fact that our community and discipleship groups are multi-life stage inclusive yeah, yeah that they're not just saying people with babies have to go to this group, people, empty nesters, go to this group.
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Right, singles go to this group.
00:18:37.721 --> 00:18:45.568
And I don't think, I don't think we need a single community group I don't think that that's the model, because I think it makes it safe, because I like having friends that are married.
00:18:45.568 --> 00:18:49.363
I like having friends that are 20 years younger than me or 20 years older than me.
00:18:50.023 --> 00:18:51.067
So it's safe.
00:18:51.067 --> 00:18:53.031
Do you think that I don't want to say?
00:18:53.031 --> 00:18:53.901
Normal is the wrong word.
00:18:53.901 --> 00:18:56.846
I think that's generous of you.
00:18:56.846 --> 00:19:08.374
Like I don't know if a lot of single people are in that mindset to go, I am looking forward to engage someone 20 years younger than me.
00:19:08.374 --> 00:19:22.272
Like, think about someone 20 years younger than you, Think about someone 25 years younger than you, and not that they're twits, but like you know, like you're having to deal with a lot of immaturity, yeah, and is that something that you're like?
00:19:22.272 --> 00:19:23.615
Are you?
00:19:23.615 --> 00:19:25.700
Does that bother you?
00:19:27.763 --> 00:19:35.769
No, they may not be my closest confidant or anything, and I think someone there could be 10 years younger than me.
00:19:35.769 --> 00:19:37.738
Most of my friends actually are about 10 years younger than me.
00:19:37.738 --> 00:19:45.702
Well, you're kind of a fun happening girl yeah but I think with younger people, I think it's just good that age just doesn't even come to the equation.
00:19:45.702 --> 00:19:49.921
It's just sometimes, when you think about it, or when I mention something like, what are you talking about?
00:19:50.060 --> 00:19:52.903
I'm like oh yeah, you were like born that year.
00:19:52.903 --> 00:19:56.244
You know something like that because you know I live a little bit.
00:19:56.244 --> 00:20:00.906
I love my 80s you do so sometimes people are like what are you talking about?
00:20:01.086 --> 00:20:03.231
throwing around duran duran, like, like everyone should know.
00:20:03.352 --> 00:20:18.298
Yes, yes, so you know, I think a lot of people that are single that are thinking that they want to be married and that that is just the goal, and especially Christian singles.
00:20:18.298 --> 00:20:20.461
I need to marry a Christian single person.
00:20:20.461 --> 00:20:33.655
In much of my earlier life I was going to these large churches that actually had large singles groups that were kind of like a dating situation, meat market kind of situation, if you will like, holy meat market.
00:20:33.655 --> 00:20:36.979
Because I don't think that's wrong personally.
00:20:36.979 --> 00:20:38.395
And I don't think it's wrong either.
00:20:39.592 --> 00:20:44.259
Yeah, because I think there's either a church or the bar or online.
00:20:44.259 --> 00:20:45.241
Where are you going to meet people?
00:20:45.241 --> 00:20:47.065
So I don't know.
00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:51.721
And all three are not great if, at the time, god's not wanting you to be married.
00:20:51.721 --> 00:21:13.500
Right fair enough, you know, yeah, so, yeah, I don't think that that's wrong, but I think the church has only given that as the solution for singles and I think that's a little narrow in the focus when that's the only thought Because, yes, that's great, let's get you together, let's have interaction, possibly.
00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:22.980
But when I was in a church and I wasn't in my early twenties, the single Sunday school was what I like to call the Island of Misfit.
00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:23.321
Toys.
00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:31.042
And I mean you know what I mean when I'm saying the Island of Misfit Toys.
00:21:31.549 --> 00:21:37.864
I think this is where this is, where this is the question Are you single for a reason or are you single for a reason?
00:21:37.864 --> 00:22:07.791
I think that's the struggle, and the reason why churches don't orient toward singles is that the island of misfit toys is a conglomeration of people that can be very challenging and difficult and so, like, um, and not because they're not wonderful people that Jesus died on the cross for, raised from the dead, but because they're not, um, monolithic, because they don't have the same sort of needs, they're not sitting there going like I'm called to be single for a reason.
00:22:07.791 --> 00:22:23.240
I'm on purpose for Jesus, and like people like you are so rare, um, that usually people that are in the Island Misfit Toys, they are trying to get married and they're single, for, you know, they're difficult people.
00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:36.020
So, for, as someone who's not a difficult person, as someone who is very generous with who you are, that somebody like you, I think is rare, and so we need to put you out like hey, suzanne, you want to be married, right?
00:22:36.461 --> 00:22:39.696
Yes rare, and so we need to put you out like, hey, suzanne, you want to be married, right, yes, okay.
00:22:39.696 --> 00:22:42.044
So like she's not against being married, like someone like that is still a virgin.
00:22:42.044 --> 00:22:50.403
Like you have kept yourself celibate on purpose because you want to honor god with your body, which is like in this cult.
00:22:50.403 --> 00:22:59.577
Like we need to celebrate you in a huge way Because what God has done for you is show you.
00:22:59.577 --> 00:23:01.519
Because you know how many people told me, like, is it possible?
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.602
I'm like, oh, you haven't met Suzanne yet.
00:23:03.602 --> 00:23:05.623
Hey, suzanne, tell me what it's like being single.
00:23:05.623 --> 00:23:07.724
Oh, it's actually awesome, it is.
00:23:07.724 --> 00:23:14.092
I'm on purpose, I'm on mission, I have a God, I'm open to marriage, I'm for it.
00:23:14.092 --> 00:23:20.923
But, man, do you know how many people told me, like, chris, you can't expect me to not have sex and I'm like no, actually, that's what it's, not that me.
00:23:20.963 --> 00:23:23.673
I don't expect anything because I'm a sinner saved by grace.
00:23:23.673 --> 00:23:31.375
But what Jesus, his standard is, is celibacy, if you're single or not married, and that's wild to people.
00:23:31.556 --> 00:23:37.825
Because our culture says that's the purpose of life, yep, but our Bible does not say that Exactly.
00:23:38.972 --> 00:23:46.996
And I think this gets into what a theology of being a single a theology of singleness might be a better way of putting that, because I think we were talking before.
