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288: Pastor Plek, Adrienne, and Machine Gun Nick are back to recap Pastor Mo's sermon on Luke 22. They don't shy away from the tough questions as they weigh the responsibilities of faith against the instinct to protect oneself, all while finding the humor in navigating this complex terrain.
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00:05 - Jesus' Mission and Transgressors
11:37 - The Importance of Salvation Through Jesus
14:58 - Understanding the Consequences of Sin
20:27 - Life Lessons and Personal Growth
24:10 - Deserving, Consequences, and God's Grace
29:42 - God and Responsibility Balance
33:06 - Debate on Christians and Carrying Weapons
42:21 - Exploring Civil Disobedience and Faith
And welcome back to Pastor Plex podcast. I'm your host, pastor Plex, with my really sweet wife here, adrian Plungpole We've now been married for 13 years, yep, and also in studio with us is none other than machine gun, nick. Welcome, machine gun Nick.
I had a 13 year marriage. It ended.
You know way to make it 13 years, though it's pretty good. It is pretty good Out of it.
Three of those were in separation oh all right, okay, so we're.
We're talking about the message from this past Sunday, where we looked at Luke 22 and we started at verse 35 all the way to verse 53. And Pastor Mo, none other than Muhammad Ali, brought the word, and it was a fantastic word. What was your initial thoughts on that sermon, adrian?
Well, I enjoyed the sermon. Felt, like Mo you know, kind of came into himself a little bit.
Oh yeah.
People don't know that Mo is pretty funny.
So yeah, so you think that this was like his, like I'm a funny person moment.
I think it was like my true colors. I'm going to start showing them.
Okay, yeah, I've built enough rapport with enough trust that the funny is coming out.
Yeah, he's taking some risks with his jokes. I like that?
What was the risky took?
Well, he made a second amendment.
Joke that was pretty funny. Yeah, that was funny.
And he talked about the male, the male affection, in a way that was, like you know, a little bit enjoyable All right, all right, yeah, all right.
So let's talk about what the big emphasis that he put on was what will you do with God's son? And initially, the sermon was sort of broken down to three different parts. There's part one where Jesus is telling the disciples there's going to be a change of mission, a Fraggo, if you will, machine gun. Nick, how'd you feel about this Fraggo?
Well. So it was kind of confusing, because we get this like hey don't, don't travel with your clup, with your bag or a sword. And then Jesus is like hey, trade in your cloak for a sword. So you know the machine gun part of me is like yeah, here we go.
And then, and then we go and get the swords right, and then Jesus is like Wait a minute, but don't use them.
Of course they're. They're like in the process of using them and they're like hey Jesus, is this okay? What can we find out? Peter's a horrible swordsman misses the head completely.
But takes an year off a soldier, right, and then Jesus goes and puts it back on and we're kind of I'm even here like, but you said, get the swords right, right, right. You know that second of a bit part hey, you want me to arm up? We're gonna go do this and we've really gone over this Plek if you don't tell me no people you know you're gonna get hurt.
Yeah, we mentioned that about. That's why you have officers in the military, because if you kill off the officer in other armies, then that everyone just waits for they go.
Defensive posture an officer shows up.
Whereas with the American Army, that's where they just start killing everything.
That's exactly right.
Like.
Oh, he's gone and there's really horrible feeling inside. But the rest of me is like and now he commenced, right, they're all gonna die, right.
Okay, so let's talk about Jesus, change a mission. He says to them essentially like before, when I say out with no money, bag, or knapsack, or sandals, did you lack anything? And they're like nothing. And he says but now let the one who has a money bag take it, likewise a knapsack, and let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one, for I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled. He was numbered with the transgressors for his written about, for what is written me, about me, has its fulfillment. And he said hey, here, jesus, we got two swords and that's enough.
Now, what I just thought was, to your point, the very next thing that happens, they pray them out of olives, and then they, judas comes, betrays Jesus. And when those around them saw what would follow, meaning the band of Mary, men and swords, lord, shall we strike with a sword? And then one of the one of them struck the serve of the high priest and cut off his right ear. So like, literally, what you just said hey, make sure, guys, make sure you have sort of, we got two swords. Oh, that's great, yeah, that's what we needed. And then he goes and wax off somebody. Should I be doing this and I think that that is a that is confusing.
Now I, when I read about the sword, jesus specifically says it they must be numbered with the transgressors. So I think this had to do with you can't be an unarmed transgressor. I think it just looks bad in the transgressor world. You know, you got to have somebody. Like whenever you arrest somebody, you know, do they have any guns? No, they're on pride and they're on private pride. I mean, I don't know, maybe this will, to make it look, have an appearance of some sort of righteousness for the sake of him being numbered with the transgressors. I don't know, I think some people can take this. Does you know? That was not for people to defend themselves, because Jesus wanted to be numbered with the transgressors and that was full scripture for him, but so it doesn't necessarily apply to us. Anyway, there's a lot that you can go into that. Personally, I think you are allowed to defend yourself. However, the mindset that you have is that, ultimately, it's not about fighting, it's about winning people for Jesus. Which. Any thoughts on that from you guys?
No did you just get lost on that one?
No, I got it, so it's it's. He didn't. We didn't tell them to get a sword, because it was about the fight.
Right, he got to tell them to get a sword for the appearance of being transgressors.
I mean, that's what it says, I mean so we get the sword, so that when they come for us they have more to put against us, they have a reason to actually arrest us.
Right, and so it. But is it necessarily and this is where it gets challenging is the sword for the next meeting with Judas? Or? And he said to them when I sent you out with no money bag, knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything? They said nothing. He said to them. But now so he's going on a mission statement. But now let the one who has a money bag take it, likewise a knapsack, and let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that scripture must be fulfilled and he was numbered with the transgressors. So the only time he's ever going to be traveling, ever again in the history of his life, is in this next moment of going to the Mount of Olives.
So, momakes, it sounds like the sword was like. Not a sword, it was the word of God. But we don't believe that is how you're saying.
Well, I mean, they didn't have like two words of God hanging around.
Well, do you remember the sermon? Yeah, I think.
I think he's meaning so in a literal sense he literally means swords. Maybe in the future sense he means he could mean word of God, which is the sword of the spirit, maybe, but he means real swords, Right? I mean right here is talking about real swords, because you wouldn't carry a Bible around to be numbered with the transgressors.
Right.
Right On the flip side of this, are they going to need swords in the future? Because, they do all die like horrible deaths, right.
Yeah, except for John. He just gets exiled and whenever they die, they willingly submit, they go, they take the civil disobedience route to its death and um.
Except, do we really think I would have them get a sword just to look like a part? I don't think so.
Well, yeah.
I mean, if it serves the, the Prophecy, then yes.
Yeah, I totally there you go.
I do think that's what is serving the prophecy. I do think that's what is challenged about. This is where in the yeah, where are they when they, when they take the move to the Mount of Olives, they've got. It's not like they didn't. They always had the swords Right. It's not like they you know, they had to go sell a cloak and buy swords. They had swords with them the whole time and they were just like, hey, jesus, two swords, good, or do we need more? And Jesus like, oh, that's enough I. So? It's not like they didn't have swords before. I think that's the thing, that's Okay. It's not like they were like, oh, corrod, we need to find a sword around here. No, they had swords, and so they take them with them, as they had probably been doing before. But he was talking about in the intentional missionary movement make sure that you go armed. The problem with it is Jesus has to be numbered with the transgressors.
So maybe it's prophecy, maybe it's preparation, or I think you know that's where it could be both things. Okay.
I think that's something that it's worth debating over, but it's a weird connection here. We can come back to that in a bit, all right. What about this next part, though? I think is fascinating for me is what about when Jesus goes to the garden? Right, he's praying, he's got the disciples with him. He drops off nine of the disciples, or, yeah, eight of the disciples and then he takes the next three with him to stay close to him Peter, james and John, and then they start praying. He's an absolute agony. It's the wee hours of the night. They don't really know what's going on. They're falling asleep. Jesus is like hey, wake up, don't fall into temptation. Then he goes a stone's throw and he says Lord, if you're willing, let this cup pass from me. And then he is then strengthened by an angel of some sort.
So when you guys read, that to me, this might be the most impactful part of the entire Bible. Would you, would you?
I think it's up there yeah.
Yeah. So, and here's why he's saying I don't want to drink, the wrath of God. I want to, not I, I, if there's another way. So how do you guys? That's? That to me is just wild. How do you handle that? I want another way. Well.
I see it as perhaps the most humanistic view of Jesus right there, like here, like because we see him as the Son of God and he can make all these miracles happen and he go 40 days in the desert with temptation and not take it. And so he's like this, this, like I mean that is awesome, like I don't know if I could do any of that. Well, obviously I can, right. But then we see him Now here's this final step and it's going to be like the hardest and he's actually going to feel all the pain and all the suffering and he's got to go through all that and he's like but God, do I really have to do that? And that to me is like the most it makes him human, like at this point in time, he is not just the Son of God, he's also a human.
Yeah, I agree, and you see it.
Right, I mean 100% man, 100% God, at all times.
Right.
And when he goes to the cross, what he's asking is his father. If there's another way, If we can do Islam, if Muhammad is the way, then let's do it that way. If the five pillars, or if, like, we can get karma to work out, or if there's some enlightened sort of state, if there's any other way, let's do it that way, and not by me having to take on the wrath of God that I've been, as Jesus would say. He has been dishing out the wrath of God. Now he's going to be on the receiving end of it, and it's so terrifying that I mean we see Jesus in all sorts of situations. Like everybody wants to kill him. He walks to the crowd. He, when somebody is dead, he raises them from the dead Like there's nothing that would should freak him out. But here he is, sweating drops of blood in the garden of Gethsemane, begging the disciples to pray with him, and they can't because they're so tired. It's because I don't think anybody can possibly fathom what it meant to look. The wrath of God full on, yeah.
And so I think that's like that's the.
whenever I was in the army, when I was 22, 23, I had another lieutenant he was like 10 years older than me and he was a former SF guy that had become an officer and we would hang out and we would. He would always have like Christian tapes on and stuff and and whatever we would talk, he would just he would just kind of repeat this If there was any other way. If there was any other way, it was like on repeat in my head then. Then he would do it that way, but there wasn't. That's why the garden of Gethsemane is so important. There is no other way.
I just can hear Sam that was his name, Sam Cohn was just in my head all the time about there was no other way. If there was any other way for anyone to be saved, it would have been done because Jesus asked for it. And that's why if you are a Christian and I think this becomes important if you're a Christian and you claim that there is another way other than Jesus, like maybe you know, I don't know- this is where I don't know why you, if you're a Christian, if you would ever do this.
But let's just say you're claiming to be a Christian and you're like well, you know people who have never heard could go to heaven because you know God would have mercy on them. Then why wouldn't Jesus say like, then don't tell anybody. I'm doing this Because the moment someone hears about it, then they are now somehow on the hook, guilty of rejecting the Son of God, whereas if they could be just completely ignorant, that would be a blessing to them. And so what? I think the reality is, whether you are, you are not, you have no knowledge of who Jesus is, because you haven't heard of it Jesus yet, or whether you've been, you know, been to church a zillion times and just rejecting him outright.
But you, the wrath of God is coming like gravity, is coming like the way fire burns. I think this is where we want to view God. We over-personalize God and don't understand the holiness of God, and so, therefore, jesus has to die and then impute his righteousness to us and we, and he imputes our sin to him. I think that's becomes so important, which I feel like that's the part of this that I don't ever want to over or I want to overdo, because I think it's that important to communicate. There is no other way other than to put your full faith and trust in what Jesus has done for us on the cross. All right, did I land the plane on that?
No, I do like it. I think that it is. I think it shows how I think it's easy to look at the crucifixion and focus on the crucifixion and as the, as the like climax of punishment, and it just wasn't that right.
The climax is right here in the garden.
Well, or maybe I would say the climax is hell.
Sure, okay, that would be the hell. Yeah, that is on the cross, then, oh.
He experiences hell while he's on the cup, not until he dies, right.
No, my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?
Oh so he's experiencing hell alive. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I thought that's what happened when he was in the tomb.
No, so remember when it, because I mean it's, I mean now. This is where we're getting to. The part that you don't know about is from his death at Friday, at you know three o'clock ish, to Easter or you know the resurrection Sunday. You don't know where he went, you just know that he went. He descended into hell.
Right. I always assumed that that after his death he descended into hell.
But you know who cares, it doesn't really matter but I think, yeah, I think experiencing hell on the cross is completely fine, and but it wasn't the crowd, like I think, that focuses off it on, it's the nails, it was the suffocation right and it's like that physical expression of the pain. Right, but the physical was not right the worst part because way more people have died in way worse ways.
Right, and I think I always grew up believing that that was the most extreme horrible form, and then you would discover other ways that were debatably as awful or worse, and and that just isn't the focus, isn't that? The focus is that he was separated from his Communion with God. Right, and that is the worst part.
And that is the and I think what, when I started to understand that, I started to understand the gravity of my sin and that it separates me, it like distances me from God, and that's actually worse than the consequences that I experience, the earthly consequence.
Oh, wow, I think what? Let's, let's go into that, because I think what you just said was really powerful. So the consequence of our sin isn't just a painful experience on a cross, a physical painful experience I think that's what you're really or a physical painful experience on earth.
Right, it's just it's.
It's actually because I think a lot of the time when I would like consider, okay, well, I know this is probably sin or I know for sure it's sin, but like maybe I'm gonna engage it anyway, it's kind of worth it, like I'm like okay, like what's it gonna be?
Like I'm gonna whatever the sin would be was like I'm kind of like I'm braced for the consequence of this one, like I know it's gonna hurt, I'm probably I might regret it, I might not, but like I feel you can kind of calculate. Sometimes you can calculate consequences of decisions and kind of consider that maybe they're worth this momentary pleasure or this laziness or whatever it is that you're gonna choose to engage. But the reality is, the more painful Consequence of that sin is the, the distance that it puts in your unity, in your relationship with God, and that's what creates the depression, that's what creates the discouragement, that's what creates the hopelessness, that's what creates, though, like the, the void that only Christ can fill is made bigger and made more empty when we choose to sin and Separate ourselves further from our connection with him.
And so when you consider that the worst punishment on the cross wasn't all the Agony that was physical, but it was instead the broken unity will helps you recognize it, like in our life today, that broken unity actually hurts us more than that like it really. It just does and and you might not think that it does, but it is hurting you worse than the consequence of Like you can screw up your marriage and and live the rest of your life in pain Because you've messed up your marriage.
But that's actually not as bad as the lack of repentance of what would happen if you continue to allow that distance Between you and God the rest of your life right, that'd be way worse way worse and and also it might show you that you actually don't have a relationship with God if you have no fruit in your life or if you're allowing that to go on like that, whatever well and also it's hopeful, like in the in the example of a marriage.
It's like if you were, just if you were to choose to wreck your marriage and then experience the, the consequence of that. There is a hope and redemption, not because the marriage is necessarily going to come back together.
Right but because your unity with God can be restored and you can heal and even though you're still experiencing some of the that's why the cross becomes so important is because what Jesus does on the cross, as he makes a wait at any moment for you to have be completely forgiven for all your sin and to have restored a restorative relationship with him. You can't lose your salvation, obviously, but what we're talking about here is, like there's this part where, if you recognize what Jesus has done for you and then you're walking in sin, it's gonna pull you back like a beacon drawing you, saying like get right with him. And when you don't, you feel the weight of that, which is brutal. And then sometimes God even gives you over to your sin for a season and you're like, yeah, whatever, and you're only making your life worse Spiritually, emotionally, physically, all the things right, exactly, and I think it's just important to remember that the consequences that you're bringing upon yourself are not are not the worst part.
Yeah, machine gun, nick. Does that resonate with you?
Yeah, it does actually how so? The biggest, I Think, thing in my life that that resonates with is the two marriages the one first one where I wasn't a very good husband, and then the second one where I had to endure what and having not a very good partner feels like.
And it was just like, oh my gosh, you know, and it's never, it never feels fair, right, right, going through it, you're like what do like? And there was at some point where I was like I, I resigned to be like, well, I kind of deserve this, you know. Yeah you know, like maybe this is just, it's a time, a season, and it will get better. And then, when it never did, I'm like okay, I'm, I gotta get on this right, you know.
But that kind of. That kind of makes me think of that. Like I did x, y and z, which was not right, and then I go run off with somebody else and like not even fully divorced yet Just take off with another girl and go through x, y and z and you're just kind of like huh, that didn't work out. Yeah, that did not work out. That was what we call in the army piss, poor planning.
Yeah, right, so yeah, and so when you that kind of brought you to a place of rock bottom, I would say right.
Well, yeah, you met me at the yeah, and then that's when you yeah, that's met you that's yeah, that's exactly where, like it was, like Like something's got to change, because, like I, like we talked about the white knuckling you say it a lot and I've Probably repeated it a lot where you're just like I gotta make it through this. Yeah, this will end like, or this to shell, pass that whole cliche, yeah. And then you're just like I got it, I gotta go, I got it, I can, I can, I can muscle through this, like everything else in life, and you go on through that and I think what is probably good In 30 years, 40 years of that ish, and then like I'm looking at it like I can't do this anymore.
Yeah, I like what you said about like just sort of feeling like you Whenever you go through hard times, oh I deserve this. Adrian, have you ever experienced? Is that a thing that you've kind of had to overcome? And that's like probably the Catholic community, because what we deserve is hell, right. But I think sometimes we think it's our good decisions or bad decisions. There are consequences of our sin, right, there are clearly. There's consequences of our sin. There's consequences of our righteousness Consequences of righteousness is blessing there's consequences of sin is sort of pain.
But sometimes, sometimes you experience grace in a physical, like life way, where you don't necessarily have to be Job, like you don't have to have the whole world fall on you and he was one of the most righteous guys ever and he has a whole bunch of bad stuff that he didn't deserve, in a sense, deserve happen to him, and so I think that it can mess with you when we kind of take a karma mindset to God, because he does what he wants and he is a father, and so sometimes we can think of like if it were me and I know I'm a great dad and so therefore I would do this for my kid Well, we can't think like that because that puts us in the place of God, what we need to do as a child, because sometimes when you're disciplined as a child, they don't know they're going to get the present at the end.
They just know that they're sad right now because they have to go to their room or whatever the thing is, and for them that's like an eternity. And I think that's hard for us to sort of wrap our head around as a child of God, to kind of look up at him and trust him with whatever the thing is whether it's we deserved it or whether we didn't of just walking in grace, of knowing I have a relationship with my father and I trust him. I think that becomes the biggest part of that. Have you experienced?
that, yeah, I do feel like, well, so here's what I'm thinking with the whole. For some reason, the deserved thing has always been like a kind of a.
I've always had a like yeah, I hate the word trigger, but like a trigger reaction, because I think that I was early in my upbringing. I was raised in a pretty like legalistic environment where there was this idea that different sins maybe had different punishments and that, you know, if you choose unwisely how to live, well, then there might be this discipline. And here's the thing it wasn't all bad teaching, it wasn't all bad thinking, but there's some key parts of it that I've learned to just really hold on to, because anytime someone talks about deserving, like you deserve hell, okay, right, that's what you deserve. And so when someone's like I don't deserve this, I'm like you're right, you don't, you deserve. Hell is what you deserve. And so I think it's really important to believe that and to focus your mind on that, because anything else like it doesn't matter how bad your current circumstance is. Right, if you're sitting there feeling like man, I kind of deserved this. Well, no, actually you deserve much worse than this Right, right right.
And I think anything else other than hell is elevating yourself and it's elevating your efforts from a place of pride. Whether you feel it is pride or not, it's, ultimately you've elevated yourself. So to me, like I think it's very important to change the mentality of like, okay, I made a lot of decisions and I'm living in the consequence. Like I've made my bed and now I'm having to lie in it. Okay, I think that's kind of a healthy mental recognition. I chose, like whether it was who I chose to marry, whether it was who. Like there's been several times.
Like I had some dark years, like when my kids were young and they weren't sleeping and I was like, okay, I chose to have these kids Granted the Lord, like there is no conception outside of him. I understand that, but there was some decision that we'd made in like trying for children. I'm like this is the consequence of my decision. Like I made a decision to like never have a reprieve, to never have a break and to keep pushing hard when we didn't really have a great balance going and we just kept adding more kids.
And like I'm, part of me is experiencing the consequence of my choice and I think it's important to consider that. But then it's also important to consider that God is a good father, that he does love us, that his desire is to meet us where we are and to provide that rest and to provide that comfort and that hope, regardless of what the circumstances. And so in the case of like, maybe in your second marriage that you were just describing, it's like God still is a God of hope and redemption, even in that bad scenario that is probably the result of some poor decision making, but not that you deserved, because what you deserved was actually much worse. And I think it's just so important to keep that in line, and I often with my girlfriends, like we joke. We've learned to joke about it, because jokes seem to be kind of a quick way to like reframe your mindset in a way that doesn't come off so rude.
Is this how you help lovingly correct somebody?
Yeah, yeah, and I think we kind of all do it with each other, but there's some, there's mentality that we have a lot of times as moms that like, if we believe that we've screwed our kid up, on the other side of that coin, when they do something positive, we also are crediting ourselves for that too.
And so when one of my friends was going off one day about how she'd made I made this horrible decision and this horrible decision and it's because of these decisions that they're this way and all these, and I'm like, and she's probably right and that she's experiencing some consequences of her choices, but at the end of the day, god was sovereign over her choices. God was sovereign over this child's life. God is sovereign over what happens in the future of this child. And so we like stop giving yourself so much credit, because in the same heart that you're giving yourself all this like condemnation and criticism for your bad decisions, that also probably means that deep down inside, you're giving yourself a whole lot of kudos for the things that are kind of going well in them, and that's a that's scary.
And so I, one of the friends- I guess on the flip side of that too, because I feel like, because people could go the other way, like they start talking about all the things they've done to make their kid awesome.
Right, if a friend is talking about how they ruin their kid, whether they're saying it out loud or not, they're crediting, probably mentally, how they've also made their kid, how they are, and so it's very important they just stop the negative because you're like, hey, hang on, like you're giving yourself too much credit.
That might be the best way to correct somebody overly on the top on the positive is by correcting their negative thinking. Correct, because that helped that. That's way to easily like you're actually not that great of a parent, god's grace was all over your life. That's probably rude, but when you saying you're actually not that bad of a parent, it's. This is.
this is God's incomplete control of all that You're giving yourself too much credit is always kind of what we say, and or we say like up through the lunchpin of your family or up it's all up to you, and it kind of helps you remember like, oh, that's not true, but it sure feels true in the moment.
Does that resonate for you Like? Do you feel like parenting for?
a second, Not right now, because I don't. I'm not really in their lives, so I don't see, like you don't feel the weight of that. No, I feel the weight of. I feel the weight of that. I don't feel any weight of anything good that I've contributed at this time Right, Because it's been so long, you know right.
So so all the I guess like the lack of relationship you have with your children, right? Is there a part of that Like, oh, I deserve that, this is punishment for me.
No, I don't deserve that. That. That, no, that's something between that has a little bit to do with the relationship with the ex and some other things, but no, I don't, I don't believe I deserve that at all.
Okay, so, yeah, okay, so you're not hard on yourself by that.
If I, if I thought I was an alcoholic, right, or I was endangering their lives when they're with me or any of the other crap that's accused of me, right, but I'm not not a druggy, I'm not an alcoholic Like I don't, you know, like they don't. I don't go and get in car wrecks with them in the car or anything like you know. But so I'm, I'm kind of like a little miffed that it is the way it is, because I'm like over here, like I'm not all these bad things, I'm not a felon, I'm not sure.
There's no reason why my kids should be held from me.
Yeah.
But they are, and so that's an injustice, and it's not what God would like. That's not. That's not what he would ultimately desire. He's still sovereign within that and so. But it makes sense to say you're not crediting yourself either way. Right now there's this absence where you're probably your only hope is like how God's gonna.
Yeah, but I do think there is like a there's God's sovereignty and human responsibility that that are like intention, and so in any circumstance and situation, to your point, you don't want to overly take credit for something, but also to your point, you made some choices that ultimately led you here, and so you have the human responsibility and God's sovereignty are, should be, constantly intention, which means God, because he, because he's connected to your human responsibility, he can override or use it and however he sees fit. That's why Romans 8, 28, all things work for the good of those who love him or call the court to his purpose. So even in your situation of a divorce, of of not having the relationship you would like with your you'd like to have your kids, somehow, all things that includes that thing works for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. So I don't know how that's going to work out for good, but it will do two things One will be for God's glory and you're good ultimately, and that and it might even be like.
You know, I don't have relationship with my kids like I want. I want to lean into the Lord, I want to lean into, I want to lean into that relationship. So the recognition of that could cause you to go and do. I'm not sure how God ultimately is going to work it out, but I think the one thing that is super important is is to see that the tension between the God, god's sovereignty, and our human responsibility Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay. Well, hey, if you've got questions, we'd love to hear from you. You can text us at 737-231-0605 or go to pastorplekcom. We'd love to hear from you Texting your questions. Just leave a voicemail. Whatever you want to do, we'd love to hear from you. We're here to talk about faith, culture and everything in between. Any other final thoughts before we move on? Oh, I do want to go on one, one more thing.
Okay.
Because I was going to talk about like, is it right to like to? Because I kind of where we were going with the question earlier like, is it actually right to to carry? And I think that would be some of the look at like, carry a weapon. And um, what we saw in that story was Jesus saying hey, make sure you carry a weapon so that you can be seen, so I can be seen, as a transgressor. Does that mean he didn't actually want you to carry weapons or does that mean you should carry weapons? What is it? And there is no.
That verse doesn't give you an answer, honestly, and there isn't another answer. Like, remember when, whenever John the Baptist comes up to soldiers, he doesn't say, hey, lay down your weapons. Sorry, john the Baptist is baptizing people for the repentance, for the forgiveness of sins. And these soldiers come up and say, hey, what must we do? And they're like hey, don't extort people. And, you know, don't make any false threats or accusations and be content with your wages. In other words, do your job, do your job well, execute justice.
Romans 13 says that you show, obey the laws of the king.
He doesn't bear the sword for nothing. So, in that, so you know that's what I always would talk about whenever I was a soldier, like I'm under the authority of a governmental body and so therefore any killing I'm doing in this circumstance is just in the eyes of God, because unless it's like immoral, like you're killing kids or something, but I'm doing as a an out outworking of his arm, because he's in charge of that. And then Psalm 144.1 is where David says you know, I praise God who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle, because he's, you know, pulled the pulled bone arrow. I think that there's a part there that there's an honor and it's godly to be trained for war, to be ready for battle, because when it comes to solving injustice, I don't know, I don't necessarily think we should be involved in vigilante justice, but if some, if it comes to defending your wife and children, I think that's a righteous thing to do Well, isn't that is said in scripture, that a man is the protector and the provider?
you're right.
And providing, I feel, is another form of protection, because if you don't provide for your family, then guess what? It's not going to be there.
And you're worse than an unbeliever. That's right. That's right.
So, on that note, I think carrying is your right or your duty.
Yeah, but you could also say I mean, this is where it just depends, right? So does that mean that people who are not carrying they're not doing? You know, like that, that's where you go, that direction. So I don't want to go that far, so, but I do think it's. It's an honorable thing to carry, but I also think it's a very honorable thing not to.
So I would say, like when a person who is they're called to be a peacemaker, right and so if you're, no, granted, there's weapons called the peacemaker, which is kind of convenient. But like when you, when you're as a peacemaker, your entire mindset shouldn't be, you know, shoot first, ask questions later, or here's my deterrent this will make sure that they understand their place. It's going to be like I want to provide like a solution that puts that person to understand justice or understand righteousness or whatever, and that doesn't necessarily require a weapon, but I do think it's it's important that you follow the law on the one hand, and so I think this is a debatable matter that you know, should Christians carry, I think you would be, you can be a Christian, say like, all Christians should carry. I think that's an okay thing to say, but I think it's also okay to say that nobody should carry. I think that's a that's a Christian thing to say as well. I don't know about that.
I don't know about that. I don't know about that I'm going to go with. Maybe you should do what you can.
Yeah. So my thing here's my thing I don't carry. I have girlfriends that do and I wish it could be like them. But, I don't carry because I don't have the ability to be as responsible as necessary to be carrying.
I just don't, I won't remember it. It'll be in like a bag. It'll be in a classroom. I'll walk through the elementary Like there's too many places I will go that I like and I'm also. I don't trust myself to have discernment in the moment of when to pull it out, when to engage it, when to use it. And so if some like right now, if, like I scream like I'm going to die. When Cody comes up the stairs every single day to my office, I'm scared, I'm, I'm caught off guard. When Chris walks into our bathroom every single day, I scream really loud.
So I don't know, what that's about.
I wish it wasn't that way.
I don't know why, and so I don't trust my wrist.
Oh sorry, Like what am.
I going to do Like? I feel my heart races and I scream and sometimes I'll. If I'm really scared, I'll fall to the ground, like so you don't want somebody like that with a gun on them. You just don't. Because what am I going to do? I might pull it out when it's not needed yet, when it's premature, and then the odds of me being overpowered, it being used on me, it being now I'm sourcing a weapon to a criminal, to me, those are all things that are likely to happen with my personality, with my whatever. So. But I am so thankful for the friends that I have that are that are like, disciplined enough and mature enough and controlled enough to like take the responsibility of responsibly, legally carrying a weapon.
I'm so thankful for them because to me they're doing me a favor by taking on that responsibility seriously. And it's not convenient, like it's not, it's not, it's uncomfortable, it's well, it's like inconvenient to be carrying around a firearm, but they do it and I view that as like a civil service. I really do, and so I'm thankful. So, like I have certain friends where I'm like really grateful if they're coming with me to something because I'm like, okay, we're, we're kind of safe, like I get to write on the fact that they're prepared in the event that something was going to happen. So I'm grateful for those people.
But I would, and I would never say we shouldn't, but I would also never say, oh, we all should, because I'm like, well, shoot, like I shouldn't. I'm quite confident of that. And so I and I think that we can I really do believe that me carrying at this stage in my life would be, would do more harm than good. And so I'm like and not because I I can't shoot a gun, right, I can, I can shoot a target pretty, pretty well, if I don't say so, but I might say so myself, but I don't.
But in the moment of of a need for that, I just don't. I don't trust myself, I don't feel confident. So to me it's a choice and it's a that you have to discern. But do I do? I think that it's a that, like, mass shootings are happening because we have a constitutional carry? Absolutely not, absolutely not. I think our mass shootings are the result of a hundred things before. They're the result of gun sales, and even at the point of gun sales, I don't think you can point them to this comes as a question of what do you do if the government tells you to turn all your weapons?
So I have a big problem with that and I and I wouldn't do that.
Yeah, I probably would.
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Yeah, If the government said turning your weapons, I would. I would follow the Romans 13.
I'm not even. We're not even going to. I'll forgive me.
God. Jesus, everybody, I'm not no, I think you could justify it as not sinful, like.
I think.
I think you could, depending on how it went down.
Yeah, I mean we did this during COVID. We wrote a note. It's probably going to be some sinning.
But I mean, during COVID, the, the government, the Texas government, said mass are not required and the school board said mass are required. So I'm like, okay. So I wrote a note saying, hey, we are training our sons to follow the government authority. The governing authority has said this is an optional choice and we are not forcing them and we are not training them to follow unsubordinate authority, which is what the school board was. So I wrote that and we were, and my kids didn't wear mass self-coding.
The only kids not wearing masks.
And with the only kids. They were some of the few. No, they were like I think we're the only ones.
It was totally weird, but it was great.
I'm not. I'm not training you that we're submitting to insubordinate authority. However, if the Texas governing, we, and then, when the Texas government required them, I withdrew them from school and we took care of education on our own. And so there is a point where I think it's important to so. But this is where I'm like is it going to be if the US president says, like, give up?
your weapons, but the Texas governor says not to.
if there's a loophole to get around it, you believe we're getting around it, Fair enough.
Fair enough? Yeah, I think it's. I don't think we're going to have to deal with that in the next 20 years, God willing, but it is something that is. That's the question that people always are asking is what do you do?
And I think you have to consider that you need to be very responsible and prepared, just like he's saying, with these sorts.
And maybe you go find a plot of property and bury them there and wait.
Do you bury them? Do you say I'm relinquishing them?
and do you?
somehow find a loophole for them.
I have no ownership of these.
Because they're in the house of property they got lost in a boating accident or do you go to?
Mexico and find a place for them, or do you go to Mexico or Costa Rica?
And maybe you keep them. I mean, I just think that there are ways around to be submissive to the law and not sinful, but also not necessarily comply in the way that is maybe.
Or you do civil disobedience.
Yeah, civil disobedience, I think at times was very scriptural.
So the problem is.
It has to be something. It's not black and white.
It's not black and white, yeah, but it has to be something that it's clearly. It's a God thing, because in Japan you can't carry a weapon.
Well, that's why I don't travel to Japan. I mean the countries that I'm willing to travel to Switzerland, Switzerland, yeah, Switzerland, you can play with guns in Switzerland. And they're like yeah, this is great. Really, I didn't know that.
All right, Well, hey, that took a weird turn, but I'm glad we had that discussion.
He was asking for that and yeah, you can text in all your questions, but probably this probably kind of create like a second amendment, like controversy, but that's okay. Hey, love to hear from you. Love to hear from you. If you have any questions, please text your questions in Call to go to PastorPlectcom. We'd love to talk more about it. It's definitely one of those things where you can be a Christian on all sorts of the aisle on that one and have different opinions. That's great. We love that. So we'd love to hear from you. Yours have an awesome week of worship.
