Transcript
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And welcome back to Pastor Plex podcast.
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I'm your host, Pastor Plex, so excited to have all of you joining us from all over the globe.
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We're an international podcast, as you all know, and joining me in studio is none other than Pastor Holland Gregg from Eastside Community Church, one of my favorite pastors.
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Thank you, Chris.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Thank you so much.
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Community Church one of my favorite pastors.
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Thank you, Chris.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Thank you so much.
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And also from the Cody Sparks band.
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Mr Cody Sparks, how are you doing?
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I'm so super, super Well.
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Jordan Smith Doing great Chris.
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How are you doing?
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It's good, a little pep in the step Never hurt anybody.
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Listen, I got a question in.
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I love for you guys to take this one and really help me.
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As we all know, kaler and Kaler, I think, is coming to a men's group tonight, which I'm excited about Kaler's talked about his transition from being a homosexual that was engaged to be married to being celibate, following Jesus heading for ministry and because he's been convicted by his lifestyle and by God's word and by the community that his sin is to be repented from and he has.
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And so when we talked about some of the struggles he's had as a Christian and one of our great listeners like we have some incredible listeners out there and I want us to thank this particular one who sent this question After listening to the podcast with Kallor.
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Kaylor talks about finding male mentors.
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However, if someone is attracted to males and trying not to be would be wise to seek out males.
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I figure things are often separated into male and female, assuming that most folks are heterosexual, trying to eliminate the messiness of, and complication of, sexual attraction.
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Thinking about these dynamics as a married female who has a husband who is far from God, who has invited a male to come to church.
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Okay, so this female has invited a male to come to church and she's wondering if Kaler should not be investing in dudes but be investing in ladies, so there isn't this unnecessary sexual attraction with a man.
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So there isn't this unnecessary sexual attraction with a man.
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What's the difference in her wanting to?
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bring a guy.
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I guess the question she's having is Well, I'm attracted to women, and if I were to go and say hey, I want to invite you to church, then you can come with me and my family, I guess I would say but I mean she's not bringing her husband doesn't go to church, right.
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And I think that's where the complication goes.
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I think there's there's there's several layers here, so let's first jump on layer one.
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Should Kaler and we'll have to talk to Kaler about this tonight but should Kaler be be seeking out female mentors as opposed to male mentors?
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As a Christian who has struggled with homosexuality in the past but moving forward, is wanting to be a celibate man of God and ultimately hopes that God changes his heart to be attracted to women, she's wondering is it wise for him?
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The better solution for him is to have female mentors and that kind of thing?
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Your thoughts on that, holland?
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Good question, and that kind of thing.
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Your thoughts on that, holland?
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Good question.
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So I think there's like a lot that goes into this, that I think needs to be talked about before we even get to it.
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We can do it.
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We can do it back Like like cause, like for me.
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I think the categories of heterosexual and homosexual are actually not biblical categories, right, um, in terms of who you are as a person, right, the Bible talks about men who practice homosexuality, not homosexuals.
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Right, the way that that category of someone being homosexual or being heterosexual is a modern, secular, psychological way of speaking, like Sigmund Freud, his contemporaries within the last hundred years.
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And so, uh, the Bible would not say that someone is a homosexual in terms of like they, they have an, uh, the idea of a homosexual orientation.
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That's all like modern pop psychology stuff.
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Gender was made.
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The word gender was made up in the fifties.
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Yeah, and um.
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So the gender identity and orientation, all that, none of this stuff is biblical categories, Right, and so we shouldn't see ourselves as homosexual or heterosexual.
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We should see ourselves simply as what the Bible says male or female, Right, and male being made for female and female being made for male.
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Those are the biblical categories.
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So for someone who's like, okay, well, I've struggled with same-sex attraction, Um, you're not a homosexual, you are a, you know.
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So, for Kayla, you are a male who has, um, some uh, disordered desires, Uh, and by the grace of God, he can change our hearts and our desires.
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But, um, what you?
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You don't need to say like, oh, I'm a different category of person that needs a different type of this or that.
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I think so.
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I think that's important is to say I'm a male, I've struggled with these desires.
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Every male struggles with disordered desires in some way or another, some that are just sinful, some that are unnatural, whatever it may be.
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Um, and so the idea of saying, okay, you know, should he seek a female mentor because he's had this, I don't think so.
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I think he should seek instead, seek to cultivate right desires and healthy male relationships within a church community where he has brotherhood, he has spiritual fatherhood and one day spiritual you know we'll have spiritual sons, that he's discipling and mentoring, but he needs to form healthy male friendships and relationships.
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I agree with you on this.
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Healthy male friendships, I think, is actually the answer to a lot of this, because if you've had unhealthy male relationships, it might be furthering your fear of them and the greater attraction to them.
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And let's just go from a um, I'm going to use uh, I feel like I'm Paul, using your language.
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You know a heterosexual person with a, like a man with an older woman who's like a grandma there's I don't, for the most part, there isn't a sexual attraction there Like that's someone that's like hey, let me, I've got wisdom for you in this area or whatever, and you would never think there was a weird sexual thing.
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Like we work with lots of women, uh, and the church, and I'm not sitting there going like I wonder if she's into me, right, like I think that's yeah, that's good, Right Like so you wouldn't or or like um as a pastor.
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Uh, I'm talking to women all the time, and probably the, and it's weird now to be almost 50.
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It's wild.
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And they're like 20 something year olds 20 something year olds that look at me like I'm their dad.
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And.
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I've you know, as I'm entering into this new phase of life, like we just did a baptism video for a 22 year old and like I would have been 25 when she was born which is weird crazy anyway.
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So like because in your head you're like yeah, we're the same age, we're all just young people and she's looking at me like I might as well have a cane and about to die right like, and so I don't think that she has any like worry, unless I.
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You know I'm sure that there are other relationships like that that we've seen out in the world it's possible it's, but, but for the most part she's looking at me more like a dad figure and, um, I'm like communicating with her on that level and so I don't think there's any weirdness about that.
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So at the same time, so, wither, I would say like he needs a man and, to be fair, like I guess I'm 25.
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He's like I'm like 22 years older than him and so I think at some point he needs a man like me or an older guy that could speak into his life and challenge him on the things where he's not looking at me as like maybe I'll be getting a relationship with him, but rather someone to challenge me.
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Well, that's the thing she said mentor, define mentor.
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Yeah, so it's somebody that you're you're using to gain knowledge and gain you know, walking through discipleship, accountable all those things.
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So you're, you're, you're walking with life through that person and you're getting advice.
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So for me, I agree with you.
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He needs someone more of a leader that would say, hey, this is how you do things as a man, or this is what we do.
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Yeah, so yeah, I think we're all in agreement on that.
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Do any Bible verses come out?
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Stick out to you on that?
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I think about 1 Timothy 5,.
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I think it is where he says you know, don't rebuke an older man, but encourage him as a father, Older women as mothers, younger men as brothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
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And so Paul is laying out for Timothy a familial type, familial way of thinking about church relationships and saying you need fathers and brothers and you need mothers and sisters.
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And so for him also like do I think he needs to be mentored by a woman?
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No, but do I think he needs healthy?
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female relationships in the church.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Yeah, and I, like Titus, two older women Likewise are to exhibit behavior fitting for those who are holy, not slandering, not slaves, excessive drinking, but teaching was good.
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In this way, they will train the younger women to love their husbands, love their children, to be self-controlled, pure, fulfilling their duties at home, kind, being subject to their own husband so that the message of god may not be discredited, which is the one that women everywhere, uh, either love or hate.
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Actually, um, but yeah so I do feel like that's, that's a powerful point of like.
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You need same-sex relationships, I think, to spur you on in some ways, because uh and you need to grow through them and they're going to help you grow in, whatever your uh sin struggle is.
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And the.
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The question, you know I think, this person's asking is like okay is, is there a danger, though, of him having close male relationships?
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If that's the thing, just like it's like you know, you wouldn't be like hey, cody, go do one-on-one discipleship with some young woman, just you and her right, yeah, yes.
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That is just not wise, and so you put yourself in that position.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you know, I think that question coming from that, but just saying like that's where a mentoring relationship of an older man, you know, but also encouraging him to have uh, uh and again we're, we're using him as an example, but you know this principle more generally, um, to have healthy male friendships and set boundaries set boundaries, be open, confess sin, repent from it, you know, and uh and expect freedom, you know like you know, aaron, uh, your wife Aaron had, she had a girl's night and they started talking to this one dude that was in the military and then she texted me and said, hey, uh, I can't remember his name.
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Hey, you and you guys have are both veterans, military background.
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He'd be a great person to kind of get and I really appreciate it.
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Like that was like she did.
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You know, she ministered in the moment to that guy.
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And then she sort of passed it on.
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Did she well, and I?
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was actually kind of like mind blown and impressed and confused at the same time.
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It was interesting.
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I was like, wow, that's kind of wild Anyway, but I do feel like, so let's get into this specific question, because this woman is, she has a husband who is far from God, and I don't know if the person that she's invited to church is a male that has homosexual attractions, so so she feels like, oh, I guess I'm, I'm the answer to this guy's uh struggle, cause I'm, you know, I'm married and it's not a big deal and I don't see anything, you know whatever.
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And I would say like, yeah, invite him to church, um, but I would have some sort of boundary, emotionally, uh, and obviously I think physical probably might not be the hard part.
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The emotional boundary goes both ways, um, and because you just got, you can't, just because someone is like, um, in your eyes, homosexual, it doesn't mean god's not gonna rearrange their desire feelings right and go well, like we're attracted to, like women, and you know I'm not gonna pray that I don't want to be right attracted to that, but you know, I know.
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I'm not going to pray that I don't want to be attracted to that.
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But you know, I'm married, I'm not going to cross that line, right?
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I don't look at that that way, right?
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But if you're not married, putting up boundaries and guarding your heart and doing all those things, you could easily fall very quickly, exactly, and I think the lady asking the question, she's invited a male to come to church.
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That's a big win.
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You should do that when you're looking to bless your neighbors, bless your coworkers, bless the people in your neighborhood.
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That's a great thing to do.
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It's just I'm not going to say it's danger, I won't be like, but I do think it.
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You know the wise person, you know you build a web of relationship and you you can only go so far, uh, with a person of the opposite sex and not dishonor your husband.
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Yeah, I agree.
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Yeah, so, um, but I do love the question and I think it's something that, as our culture becomes more progressive, I guess, where there's more and more men who are at home and more and more women in the workplace and that can get confusing that we lay down as people who are meeting you right where you're at, but sort of challenge you to kind of go back to.
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I don't want to say it's going back to more traditional roles, but going to biblical roles that God has instituted for men and women and being a difference and a light in a culture that is so dark.
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Yeah, yeah, that's good.
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Yeah, I think so.
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All right, any other thoughts on any of that, not that question.
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Yeah, I would say just like especially, you know, if your husband's far from God and there's a barrier there, you really don't want to be building close friendships with other men and you know, hand that off.
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So, hey, invited church.
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Hey, here's Cody.
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But what if that guy is struggling with homosexuality?
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I think that becomes an extra thing, right uh?
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so then it's like well, there's no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like real type of romance ever sure, but I do think it's again.
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I think there's a guardian, the heart both ways, yep, and there's a certain part of I don't know how to put this, but you want to honor your spouse even though your spouse may not care, right, and all that.
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There's a certain honoring of your spouse.
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I think Adrian probably one of the things I grew the most in from my being single to being married.
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There's a certain amount of I used to.
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This is so bad.
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My mom would always say give him a thrill, chris, you know like, and so like, you know, make a girl feel good.
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And I, you know, I learned early on when I gave a girl a thrill, even if there was like no chance or whatever, that was not, it was not honoring to Adrian, and so I quickly learned over time that that there's a certain way to interact with the opposite sex that is honoring to your spouse.
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And I think that's the part where I think some people really need to grow in to really experience the fullness that God has for us.
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Anyway, all right, any other?
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thoughts on that.
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Okay, hey, listen.
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Thanks so much for watching.
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Again, we want to answer all your questions, so make sure you send them in Text in at 737-231-0605, or go to PastorPleckcom and leave a message for us.
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There we talk faith, culture and everything in between.
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We'd love to hear from you, from our house to yours.
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Have an awesome week.
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You ready, of course?
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Nailed it.
